How did Cliff Joyner fall off the 1-pkt map?

[King T]

More like..,

Do ya mean like along the lines of too much pride???? If you do, I can totally understand that but when it comes down to your health AND your health is affecting your livelyhood............

Its hard to put down your sole source of income for months while you wait for a shoulder to heal from surgery, its a tuff call...., play subpar or sit on the sidelines for a few months trying to come up with plan B until plan A is back in play?

 

[jtompilot]

No disrespect intended, just wondering who the 24 are that want to play Cliff even for cash?

All the Fight night 1P guys plus Billy Thorpe, Mika, Darren, too many to name them all. Heck, I'd take Brandon Shuff over Cliff. I'm not trying to dis Cliff, I have a tremendous amount of respect for his game. It's just that Father Time comes for us all and there are so many new young guns that play one pocket extremely well. I think most of them realize that there is more 1P action around the country for them that they have been forced to learn the game at an earlier age.

 

[jtompilot]

My point is that 9 Ball and 10 Ball require a big break which can greatly diminish later in life. Those games also require a big stroke when the shot comes up that requires it, you don't have any other option.

One Pocket and 8 Ball give you lots of outs, plenty of places to hide any weakness and lots of options to force your opponents hand..,

easy to slow down those gun slingers in One Pocket, just make them Bank!

Ask Corey about the soft break. Maybe he can help Cliff with that.

I don't care about 9 or 10 ball, we're talking 1P. I do understand about rotator cuff problems. I had to quit pool for two years because of mine. I've never been the same since. That's when I really got into 1P

 

[King T]

We may never know, but..,

All the Fight night 1P guys plus Billy Thorpe, Mika, Darren, too many to name them all. Heck, I'd take Brandon Shuff over Cliff.

Well Cliff might not healthy enough to play them anytime soon, but none of the guys you named play good One Pocket, they are all second tier and could get weight from Cliff if he's 90%



I'm not trying to dis Cliff, I have a tremendous amount of respect for his game. It's just that Father Time comes for us all .

I think that you think that Cliff is older then he is and for those that are modern and healthy there are lots of ways to stay in the game.

 

[BmoreMoney]

Its hard to put down your sole source of income for months while you wait for a shoulder to heal from surgery, its a tuff call...., play subpar or sit on the sidelines for a few months trying to come up with plan B until plan A is back in play?

Yeah, I get it - it's for sure a tough situation . The thing is with the insurance though, better get it while the gettins good if you know what I'm saying. Bottom line his injury is only gonna get worse with time, quite possibly to where he would not be able to play AT ALL! And if it does get that bad and no freebie insurance is available anymore then what???? Yankees know pre Obama care, the free insurance was only available for women and children and while who the hell knows what's gonna happen I can see it going back to something like that - that's all I'm saying. But I do like Cliff and wish him luck whatever he does.

 

[King T]

Your right.

Yeah, I get it - it's for sure a tough situation . The thing is with the insurance though, better get it while the gettins good if you know what I'm saying. Bottom line his injury is only gonna get worse with time, quite possibly to where he would not be able to play AT ALL! And if it does get that bad and no freebie insurance is available anymore then what???? Yankees know pre Obama care, the free insurance was only available for women and children and while who the hell knows what's gonna happen I can see it going back to something like that - that's all I'm saying. But I do like Cliff and wish him luck whatever he does.

Your 100% correct, we are heading back to the dark ages when it comes to insurance, the only industrialized nation that doesn't believe in taking care of the less fortunate..,

I hope he and I will have that conversation when I get back into the country next month, if not definitely at DCC.

 

[bbb]

All the Fight night 1P guys plus Billy Thorpe, Mika, Darren, too many to name them all. Heck, I'd take Brandon Shuff over Cliff. I'm not trying to dis Cliff, I have a tremendous amount of respect for his game. It's just that Father Time comes for us all and there are so many new young guns that play one pocket extremely well. I think most of them realize that there is more 1P action around the country for them that they have been forced to learn the game at an earlier age.

younger player
sharper shooter
knows the moves
%70 percent shot for you
%80/85 shot for them
shot you pass up
worth the risk reward for them
they make it
you lose
its not like the old days unless
you strangle him untill he gives you an easy shot
jmho
icbw

 

[Cory in DC]

younger player
sharper shooter
knows the moves
%70 percent shot for you
%80/85 shot for them
shot you pass up
worth the risk reward for them
they make it
you lose
its not like the old days unless
you strangle him untill he gives you an easy shot
jmho
icbw

Poetic! Also true.

 

[pookster]

Caniholdahundreditis I belive...

LOL!!!!! oh man that't a good one cause I had it coming my way also

 

[pookster]

No disrespect intended, just wondering who the 24 are that want to play Cliff even for cash?

These are not in order btw

Alex P
scott frost
efren
Busty
chohan
danny smith
junstin Hall
Jeremy Jones
shuff
bergman
mika
Darren
SVB
Billy thrope?
Silva Ocho
Dechaine?
Jason shaw?
Mike davis?
Brain deska
Josh robert


Some more pinoy and chinese and tawainese

 

[penguin]

it's not easy being a professional pool player...

 

[storke]

These are not in order btw

Alex P
scott frost
efren
Busty
chohan
danny smith
junstin Hall
Jeremy Jones
shuff
bergman
mika
Darren
SVB
Billy thrope?
Silva Ocho
Dechaine?
Jason shaw?
Mike davis?
Brain deska
Josh robert


Some more pinoy and chinese and tawainese

I can only believe you really don't know or understand how strong Cliff plays one pocket and the knowledge he has with this list you have put together. It is true as of late he has not played up to his speed and seems not to be into it like he used to. That said Silva Ochoa, Mike Davis, Brian Deska, Mika, Shuff, or Dechaine would not be the favorite in a ahead gambling session. The others outside of Alex, Scott Frost, Danny Smith, and Justin Hall would have their hands full and at most are a pick em and would be even money to win or loose.

 

[alstl]

I can only believe you really don't know or understand how strong Cliff plays one pocket and the knowledge he has with this list you have put together. It is true as of late he has not played up to his speed and seems not to be into it like he used to. That said Silva Ochoa, Mike Davis, Brian Deska, Mika, Shuff, or Dechaine would not be the favorite in a ahead gambling session. The others outside of Alex, Scott Frost, Danny Smith, and Justin Hall would have their hands full and at most are a pick em and would be even money to win or loose.

Why are you trying to ruin the man's action?

 

[jasonlaus]

Your 100% correct, we are heading back to the dark ages when it comes to insurance, the only industrialized nation that doesn't believe in taking care of the less fortunate..,

I hope he and I will have that conversation when I get back into the country next month, if not definitely at DCC.

First off, why should we take care of somebody that won't get a job?

Second, we taxpayers give a ton of money to people who REFUSE to get a job. The US does NOT make money, the people do. Therefore we are the ones giving it to them by being robbed by our gov't.

I'm sick of having MY money given to people/countries when I'm in a hotel room 1,000 miles from home most of the year and don't see my family at all. It's called theft and our country steals plenty

You have no idea what you are talking about!
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

I can only believe you really don't know or understand how strong Cliff plays one pocket and the knowledge he has with this list you have put together. It is true as of late he has not played up to his speed and seems not to be into it like he used to. That said Silva Ochoa, Mike Davis, Brian Deska, Mika, Shuff, or Dechaine would not be the favorite in a ahead gambling session. The others outside of Alex, Scott Frost, Danny Smith, and Justin Hall would have their hands full and at most are a pick em and would be even money to win or loose.

Maybe you haven't seen Cliff play the last 7/8 years or so. He plays probably less than half the speed he used to play - it's not pretty!

I wouldn't bet $5 on Cliff playing Wilke onepocket and Wilke doesn't play onepocket.

10 years ago I would've bet on Cliff playing anybody but Efren(coin flip) I woulda just stayed out of that game
Jason

 

[jayburger]

Caniholdahundreditis I belive...

Lol he is no doubt"king of the" biteyouforahundred"

 

[garczar]

Lol he is no doubt"king of the" biteyouforahundred"

No doubt. I guess putting the bite on people for 25yrs. will wear a guy out.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

I think that you think that Cliff is older then he is and for those that are modern and healthy there are lots of ways to stay in the game.

The only game that Cliff could ever hang with the big dogs was One Pocket, and yes, he was top three at one time...

I have been to DCC multiple times, even going back to the Executive West days, and have seen Cliff play a number of times live, and even played him in a tournament One Pocket match in my last trip. I also have a good number of his matches from when he played his absolute best, in the early years of the DCC.

He's nowhere close to his full speed. I got two games off him in our match, and in his prime, I don't get a game. While Cliff was always a good mover, one of his main strengths was banking a tough shot to start a run, and he just doesn't have that any more.

If it's a tough shot a top level player is a favorite to make, is a no-brainer win if he makes it, but automatically loses if you miss? Cliff's nerves are just not as good as they once were. He hasn't played at that level in quite a few years, and that's something you can't just simply get back overnight.

Cliff is not a favorite against virtually any great player who plays decent One Pocket... If you forced me to, I could make a list of 50 players that would be a favorite over him in an even One Pocket game. I would actually bet large amounts of money on at least 25 of them.

Cliff's moving isn't even as good as it was before.. A lot of his value came from his ability to execute so well as to be aggressive while still getting safe.. Such as banking a ball off the top rail and banking into a ball 2-3 diamonds form his pocket and hanging it, all while freezing his opponent to the top rail.

He simply doesn't execute well enough to hang with players with pro caliber execution. My list would go a lot deeper than pookster's...

Short Bus Russ

 

[BasementDweller]

While Cliff may never have been considered a top tier rotation player, I do think his 9 and 10 ball games were underrated because of his stellar one pocket play.

Here he is at his best for those of you who haven't seen it before. It's the finals of the 2007 Predator 10 Ball Championship. This match is played at a very high level by both Cliff and some young kid named Van Bo something.

https://youtu.be/Lu1asD62Si4

 

[Karate]

He's still playing...

It seemed to be Cliff and Efren for years and then his game vanished into thin air.

What happened?

Cliff was in Dallas, Tx a couple weeks ago.
He was giving a pretty descent spot to a good player.
They were playing $200-300 per game.
I was gambling on the table next to him.
We all played until close that night.
Cliff seemed healthy and looked the same as usually.
He did book a loser that night.

Anyway, I thought I'd let people know that he still plays at a high level
maybe not as good as his prime but, still very good.

We hung out a little after...and Cliff was super nice and it was fun having a top level player in the pool room.

Karate-