How Do I Become an APA 6?

Fool 4 Pool said:
Allen, I typically take 40 - 60 seconds between shots. My teammates are definitely trying to speed me up. When I'm playing at home, and practice with a faster pace, I do get into a rhythm easier, but then I will miss an easy shot, or screw myself by running off all but one ball, then leave the table open for my wife or ghost to run off. That's why I purposely slow down when league night rolls around. I would love to play quickly and naturally with no mistakes, but wouldn't we all?
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I can almost guarantee you won't make it to be an apa 7, playing that slowly. It is not consistent with good play. Even Souquet who takes forever to analyze a table, plays at a decent pace from shot to shot once he is done analyzing. If you have to take that long on each shot, your analytical technique is wrong and a waste of time, or you're not getting the shape you need off your previous shot and maybe you should work on technique and forget about analysis for a while. Either way your taking too long.
JMHO.
 
If you play league on a bar box, then practice 1/4 of the time there and 3/4 of the time on a 9 footer. When you play the bar box, play 8 ball. When you play on the 9 footer, play both 9 ball and straight pool. By playing 9 ball. It takes your options away. You have only one ball to shoot at next. Once you become a little better at running racks like this, moving to a smaller table where you can choose what to shoot next makes the game seem incredibly easy. And straight pool will help you develop pattern play and break outs.
 
whitewolf said:
A little clarification here :D :

Chess players, and I used to be a fairly very good chess player, can think 15 moves ahead on one scenario. When they get there, they analyize the position, and at this point they probably do have a gut feeling based on past experience. To say they "don't think about it too much" is riduculous. A chess player may 'think' of a bunch of scenarious during a match, especially a tough one. They think so fast that to a common man (or some crack pot author tying to get his masters degree) it could be seen as being 'internalized'.

In pool, especially in 8 ball, the pros look at the table and decide what to do. But they must think!!!!!! A chess player can visualize the board 15 moves into the future, and a good pool player like Efren, who plays chess by the way, probably can visualize where all his balls are in his head.
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Did you read the article? They don't think in the sense that they don't agonize over it, they just know. Much as I in a differnt arena, just know how to write c++ code. I don't think about it the logic just flows, the point he was making was that the strategy just flows, they don't concously think anymore.
I can't speak to Chess from experience, because I quit playing it in about 2nd or 3rd grade because it was too boring, due to all the time my opponent spent thinking actually. I can speak some about pool from experience and I am absolutely positive that over-thinking situations can only disrupt your game and hurt it. Yes you have to think to an extent, but to agonize over the position of the balls isn't necessary. The more you play the more the patterns emerge. Maybe it is from accumulated experience which is digesting the layout sub-consciously, I don't know or care why. I further think it is holding the original poster back to over-analyze at this point in his development, it only delays the development of his "pool intuition". It's nothing magic that happens, it is just the accumulation of experience below you're thinking level.
 
catscradle said:
BI said he asked ER to vocalize what he thought about as he played, ER basically said "I don't think, I just play" (in broken English presumably). I think that is what you should strive for, don't over analyze, just play.
I would also suggest if you've the time read "The Tao of Sports".
BTW, if you speed up everybody in the league will appreciate it. :D
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I don't think that Efren's advice, "I don't think, I just play" was articulated very well. Efren has played thousands of games so his knowledge base and his skill level is beyond most people.

Besides, I've watched enough games of Efren playing to know that he actually does take the time to think about his shots before playing them.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I don't think that Efren's advice, "I don't think, I just play" was articulated very well. Efren has played thousands of games so his knowledge base and his skill level is beyond most people.

Besides, I've watched enough games of Efren playing to know that he actually does take the time to think about his shots before playing them.
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He takes time before he starts, but then he just executes. He's not reanalyzing every shot like the original posted said he does.
 
I think, if you want to be a 6 or 7, you should be looking at the practice routines for 6s and 7s. I've been a 7 in the APA for some time now and can tell you, for a stretch, it took at least 10 hours of table-time a week in order to maintain my rating. For at least 2 years, I was playing approximately 20-30 hours a week, studying books, tapes and live-matches. I competed in all professional and amateur events I could get to and sparred regularly at my local room.

Now, I play about 5-10 hours a week (I should change my signature) yet because of all the work I put in before, I have become extremely familiar with what it takes to be successful. If you want to get better and more fluid (which is what you speak of when referring to the 6 on your team), you're going to have to put in some serious time that encompasses more than just your APA night and playing your wife. I got to where I am because my goals in pool exeed the APA's handicap structure tenfold.
 
ScottW said:
Soooo... you want to be a 70?

:D
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Yeah, that's one way of looking at it. What I meant was, I'm looking to excel in 8-ball, 9-ball, straight-pool and just about any other pool/billiard game and to be competitive beyond amateur-level. My results in the APA are not what motivate me to get better. I view those results as an inevitable biproduct of my general progression.
 
quit playing APA

Not to sound like an arse....However, I know that this will come across this way......Just quit playing leagues........Leagues are truly not around to make or inspire one to shoot better.....Leagues are around to make money and to get people involved in pool........If you inspire to play better you must ofcourse play opponents that are better than the level that you currently play at........Leagues teams, especially APA Leagues, usually set up the brackets in such a way that you should beat your opponent.........In other words a 6 will normally match up with a 4,5 or a 7....The closer you keep the skill level the better the odds of winning........Majority of the time your better players will not even waste their time playing leagues...............

To become better at 8-ball you must first conquer 9-ball............8-ball is a game of luck which options many different balls to shoot at if you can not play shape.............Also, APA 8-ball allows slop shot to count.......Not a good practice to help getting better when you miss your shot and the cue ball goes 5 rails and knocks in one of your other balls.......9-ball allows you to practice shape, stroke and pattern play.............Try this on a 9-footer and once you conquer it bar table play becomes easy..........Plus 8-ball becomes more simplistic one you learn shape............

I currently am rated a 9.4 in BCA league play and a 7 in APA............I despise leagues, however, I continue to get begged into playing on them.........I would much rather be matching up with the ghost, gambling or just practicing alone on a 9-footer.............
 
Snap9 said:
To become better at 8-ball you must first conquer 9-ball............8-ball is a game of luck which options many different balls to shoot at if you can not play shape.............Also, APA 8-ball allows slop shot to count.......Not a good practice to help getting better when you miss your shot and the cue ball goes 5 rails and knocks in one of your other balls.
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8-ball is a game of luck? :rolleyes: And I suppose there's no luck involved in 9-ball? :eek:
 
Williebetmore said:
JM,
You fooled me. I thought you were going to say you were going to cut off 5 inches.
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Hah! I was thinking of something along those lines.

We had a meeting here at the office a while back where our fearless leaders were attempting to brainstorm on how we could increase our revenue. So two different people in the meeting were saying ridiculous things like, "well, if you give me $1500, I can turn it into $2500 in a week". The other guy said something even more ridiculous because it was something like, "give me $50,000 and I can turn it into $100,000 in a month". Naturally I couldn't let this go unanswered so I stood up, looked the owner right in the face and said, "You give me $50,000 and I'll go on the road playing pool and turn it into $10,000 in a month!"
 
Snap9 said:
Not to sound like an arse....However, I know that this will come across this way......Just quit playing leagues
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Usually when somebody starts off with "not to sound like ...", the next part of the statement is exactly what they will sound like. We'll let Snap9's statements speak for itself.

If you're a skill level 5 or less, then a league structure is probably the best place for you to be. In this case, league is a good way to go out, play, have fun, compete, learn, and advance your game to new levels of performance. At this point league will clearly show evidence of your improvement.

Your other options are to play in tournaments, most of which (as a 5 or less) you will not ever win, because the other players will knock you out so quick, that it'll be hardly worth it. With the exception of being very selective about which tournaments you enter, so then you have good chances of winning, but then that negates the concept that Snap9 is trying to convey where you get to see and play better players. In other words, he's saying you'll learn by losing to them... and in this case losing lots. Most people won't endure the longevity that it takes to truly improve your skill in pool, unless it at least has some fun of competing with a chance to win. I highly doubt that even Snap9 is focusing on playing in only pro events or in playing only the higher stakes gamblers (i.e. $10,000+ or $1000+ per set), especially if it's a player that he knows is better.

Based on where your game is at right now, league will provide you enough avenues to see better players and learn from them, while being able to compete against other players in your range or slightly above if you prefer. You can even go to other tournaments and watch and learn, or even play in a few...

Snap9 said:
To become better at 8-ball you must first conquer 9-ball............8-ball is a game of luck which options many different balls to shoot at if you can not play shape.............
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This statement has already been refuted, comparing the luck factor to 8-ball and 9-ball.

If you're game is not at a point where you can play run-out 9 ball or pretty close, then you'll find that 9-ball, especially tournaments, is a waste of time. This is because at that level, people who constantly cheese the 9 into any pocket can unfortunately win more often. This won't help your game at all.

Snap9 said:
9-ball allows you to practice shape, stroke and pattern play.............Try this on a 9-footer and once you conquer it bar table play becomes easy..........Plus 8-ball becomes more simplistic one you learn shape............
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True... Practicing and learning shape from 9-ball can be useful, along with practicing and learning skills from other game variations like straight pool, one pocket, golf, ....

Besides, leagues will give you a chance to watch and learn from players at a 9.4 skill level (whether they want to be there or not).
 
Quit leagues was the best answer so far.
Play on a real table, and play a real game. 9-ball, straight pool, and rotation qualify. 8-ball, One-pocket, golf, six-pocket, bottle pool, and pea pool do not count.
Play 3-cuhion billiards as much as possible without becoming addicted.

3 years of this at 5 hours per week and you will be a 7 the day you sign up for leagues again.
 
SphinxnihpS said:
Quit leagues was the best answer so far.
Play on a real table, and play a real game. 9-ball, straight pool, and rotation qualify. 8-ball, One-pocket, golf, six-pocket, bottle pool, and pea pool do not count.
Play 3-cuhion billiards as much as possible without becoming addicted.

3 years of this at 5 hours per week and you will be a 7 the day you sign up for leagues again.
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LOL.... Yeah, go ahead and quit, if you wanna improve at that slow a rate...
:cool:
 
I agree quit the leagues.

I finally quit eightball league in APA about six months after I started playing pool, due to the fact that i could beat everyone on my team and most of them had been playing for years. Then one night at the pool hall some kid showed up and asked if i wanted to just play. We started playing nine-ball and i got slaughtered. I thought i played pretty could but realized how bad i sucked playing A+ players. He is now a good friend who i shoot with 25+ hours a week. Anyway back to my point. After i started playing only nine-ball, it took about six months of losing every single game and going two and out at every single tournement, before things started clicking. I started going to a different pool hall and playing on nine-footers. Also started gambling alot with friends. I then got ask to join a A team in BCA and was skeptical, but after playing I realized how much my eightball game had jumped due to have to play good position in nine-ball. I am in the top ten my league in stats. So i agree with the other posters, start playing lots of nine-ball and either gamble or meet some really good players in your area and play with them as much as possible.
 
Somebody touched on this a bit earlier in the thread here, but nobody really ran with it. The best, best, BEST way to increase your standing in the APA is to not only win, but win in as few innings as possible. That makes counting safeties imperative. You can shoot as fast, or slow as you like. Be as meticulous, or free-wheeling as you like. Plan everything and execute precisely, or just start making balls and see what happens. None of it matters. Start winning in as few innings as possible in what ever manner you like. I have some 5's on my team and they ask why they never advance even though they have nearly undefeated seasons (match-wise) and that is the only answer I can give them. Many factors go into the handicap, but the quickest way to move up is inning counts in victories.

That being said, many of the suggestions mentioned so far can help reduce the number of innings. Personally, I feel that knowledge of Straight Pool can really improve your chances since you have to deal with clusters often.
 
The best way to become a 6 is to start out as a 7 and sandbag.:rolleyes:

Be careful about what you ask for because you may get it. Once you are there- there is no turning back. No matter how many games you lose you will never decrease in skill level. You will find it very frustrating to play against 3,4, and 5's because they will only have to win 2 or 3 games to your 5. If you are playing against a 3 you can only lose one game if you lose the 2nd you are done. With winner breaking and 8 on the break wins one mistake and you can end up a loser. You could make the 8 and scratch or hit it in out of turn in your first game (stuff happens). The opponent now breaks, makes the 8 and game is over.
 
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