How do the young players in Europe make money?

VIProfessor

VIProfessor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One question I've been thinking about in light of all the debate about the improvement in European pool. Can anyone tell me how the up and coming European players make their money? Is there mad action across the lake, are the players working at jobs, or does the more generous social welfare system in European countries enable them to play full-time, or what? Obviously, this is, in my opinion, an important question since we see that most of the top American players came up through road action, and it seems that the European players have come up mostly through tournaments. Can any of the European posters shed some light on this?
 
I do not know what is common in all Europe, but I know for a fact this:

- Many young European top-players have coaches (individual or from the federation), which give them exercises on email and meet them a couple of times a years to watch, improve and practise.

- Especially in Germany they start with leauge-play at age 10-12, and plays a match each week. There are at least 7 levels of players, and if they win more of 50 % of their matches in one level, they move one level up. This continue for many years, till they start playing bigger national tournaments, and this system creates A LOT of good German players. (It is way more detailed, and was told over a couple of beers during EC Youth this year, so maybe I got it wrong too). It makes you think about the high level of players when Hohmann won the World Championship BEFORE he reached a final home in Germany...

In Europe some federations is given support from the governments, so they can hire coach'es for players and national teams. Most of the countries spend much money on the youth.

It's very common to play not just 9-ball, but also tournaments in 14-1 and 8-ball. (The European Championship is all 3 disiplines + teams)

Gambling and Road play is not common at all in Europe, compared to Asia and USA, in my opinion. Yes, we have money-matches here too, but for example at my poolhall two players can decide to play a match to 250 in 14-1 just for fun, and they act like it is the final of the World Championship. Not joking around, but playing serious match with just playing for the honour. I think that is great, especially when the youngsters do it...
 
OK, I understand that, but how do the players survive economically? Are you saying that because of the structured system of coaching and competition players are able to advance to world-class level play without playing the game full-time the way American players do?
 
I forgot about the head-line :)

Correct me if I am wrong somebody, but I think that pool is a part of school/army in some countries. If you reach a spesific level you can go to school, and some part of your day at school is about pool, sports, pshycology and so on. I know of at least two countries offering that, and we are working with the same in Norway.

It's not easy, but if we can make it I think it will be great.

For example, in January we will have a School Championship in Norway, which means that 2 pupils at each school in Oslo get a day off school to compete in pool. The schools like this project, because pool is a sport for everybody, anyone can succeed, and this is our first step to try to get pool in as a part of school too. Maybe in a couple of years, pupils in Norway can also choose to have 1 hour of pool in school once a week.

But as it is today, I believe that structured practise and good exercises makes it possible to make good players without the roadplaying, and with the players live "a normal life".
 
In The Netherlands, where I live pool is considered a "top" sport which qualifies for support from the Olympic governing body for a select few players. At the moment probably about 5 players get this support. For the rest it is mainly something that is done besides school or a job, with the lucky few having parents who are able and willing to support a career in pool, but getting an education upto atleast the age of 16 is the law here.

gr. Dave
 
same as DD here. we HAVE to go to school till 18y.
we do have sportschools, but thats only after 18y when u graduate, and for most that is to late, and school + pool is a NONO option :D they would LAUGH if u would ask it.

on the other hand, pool in our country is NOT a topsport, even if im sure 99% of every belgium person has already played pool in his life once, we only have about 150 players who play in tournaments. but thats mainly because of our governement calling pool a Barr-sport thats done in between 2 beers like 99% of the people do. we dont get ANY suport and even the national board ont has ANY sponsers and cant seem to find any. (this might be because pool as a sport is pritty new, and we are trying to find the right system , but untill now, we havent found it. in contrary its only getting worse).

so no sponsers for the board + no sponsers from ministries & sport associations + not finding a good national tournament system that works + no sport+school options before 18 = no youngsters.

that being said, the love of some parents is sO big, they give up there daytime job, so they can drive there kid to everywhere where he can learn something, they pay for coaches abroad, the send them to poolcamps abroad, and some individual actions of PLAYERS who invest all there time in helping them for free (aka check my post about first youth tournament in belgium), is there only option. can this work? yes, is it a high % system, NOT at all.
 
Thanks guys,

Wow! It's clear that the European pool culture is entirely different, and in many ways something to be admired. It reminds us all that there are many different paths to excellence. It seems the exact opposite of the Filipino experience, for example, but it shows that the key element is the degree of support and participation.
 
Solartje said:
same as DD here. we HAVE to go to school till 18y.
we do have sportschools, but thats only after 18y when u graduate, and for most that is to late, and school + pool is a NONO option :D they would LAUGH if u would ask it.

on the other hand, pool in our country is NOT a topsport, even if im sure 99% of every belgium person has already played pool in his life once, we only have about 150 players who play in tournaments. but thats mainly because of our governement calling pool a Barr-sport thats done in between 2 beers like 99% of the people do. we dont get ANY suport and even the national board ont has ANY sponsers and cant seem to find any. (this might be because pool as a sport is pritty new, and we are trying to find the right system , but untill now, we havent found it. in contrary its only getting worse).

so no sponsers for the board + no sponsers from ministries & sport associations + not finding a good national tournament system that works + no sport+school options before 18 = no youngsters.

that being said, the love of some parents is sO big, they give up there daytime job, so they can drive there kid to everywhere where he can learn something, they pay for coaches abroad, the send them to poolcamps abroad, and some individual actions of PLAYERS who invest all there time in helping them for free (aka check my post about first youth tournament in belgium), is there only option. can this work? yes, is it a high % system, NOT at all.
Click to expand...

I find this quite surprising since Belgian companies like Simonis, Aramith, VerHoeven are so big in billiards. Then I think oh...why am I surprised it IS Belgium after all...I can say that because I'm originally from there...lol
Maybe the success the women are having in Tennis will spill over to pool/billiards.
ruk
 
Nicolas Ottermann joined the sportsmen unit of the German Army. Dunno if he's still on duty...

This means he is a soldier but he's more or less doing sports all the day. Not only pool, but also condition and muscles.

In the State of Hessen we're pretty well set up with practice. There's a special youth programme where to top kiddies take part under supervision of a very experienced player. (Hohmann was also part of that)

Recently a 9 year old won the youth titles in 14.1 and 8-Ball (tournament open up to 12 years) He played a predator cue with z-shaft.
His 14.1 was a good one, very calm and thought well.
No plain hitting at all and no cursing if something went wrong

About the money, some get paid to play for a "foreign" team -Highest amount I've heard was 300€/month- but they still work in a normal job.
Martin Poguntke for example is customer consultant at Volkswagen . if you buy one he'll give it to you at Wolfsburg

And of course there are some house-tournaments where those guys appear
Monday before lent is a midnight tourney near Coblence with a guaranteed payout of 500€ - 12 hours round robin - 9Ball sudden death
Some other tournaments have similar payouts

But touring around and earning 50€ an evening makes 150€ a week.
I have 3 of those in reach - sunday, monday and thursday
 
I'd just like to say that this has been a most interesting thread. Thanks to those who were able to enlighten us on this subject.
 
I'm a Norwegian player and money games are not as visible as in the states but they are there you just have to know what to look for. But in a country with 4.5 million citizens and a view on sports that mostly include soccer and cross country skiing as the only true sport, pool manages pretty good.
The game is still behind say bowling, but it seems to get more and more attention. But the players work, and then play.
 
Roy Steffensen wrote:
> Correct me if I am wrong somebody, but I think that
> pool is a part of school/army in some countries.

Yes, you are correct. (forresten, kjekt aa se en felles normann her paa AzB ;^)

-- peer
 
Some cities hand out some sort of municipal subsidies for sports. I remember that 6 years ago some poolhall requested this and got it. From there on about 6 youngsters in the age of 8, 9 and 10 years old started playing third class competition pool, wich was the lowest level in our country at that moment. Well anyway they got better and better and the mental drill instructor from the poolhall became the official coach of a new Dutch youth selection. 2 years ago they got an extra assistant coach from who'm they get technical support and who analysis things for them. From there on the Dutch federation started paying some stuff ( and we must not forget to mention that the father of Nick van den Berg and the sponsor of Nick ( Global Antiques) spend a lott of money sponsoring the youth. For example: There was a big discussion on our forum about how our women were going to play at the Europeans.. He said for every medal the women get i give 250 euro to the youth and motivated others to do the same..)

At the moment we have 9 divisions of competition in our country, from fifth class till first division and 1 Promotion divison to make into the the Pro Team League, wich is ment to be the creme de la creme of pool in Europe. Next to that we have a b-ranking for everyone not placed among the best 96 players of the country. We have an A-ranking for the numbers 96 till 33 of the country and we have a Grand Prix for the best 32 players of the country. The pricemoney is upgraded by the dutch federation. For example first price at an GP is 1000 euro. I think you wil have gotten it by now: The youth went on and on and are all playing the first or second division by now.. and 5 of them allready play in the Pro Team League ( some names in there are Imran Majid, Marco Tschudi, Tony Drago, Torbjorm Blohmdahl, Alex Lely, Niels Feijen, Oliver Ortmann, Nick van den Berg etc..etc). First they won b-rankings and from there on were winning A-rankings with wich they earned some money and again 4 of them are playing the GP now.. Some of them have individual sponsors.. and the whole Dutch youth team made a deal with Longoni 2 weeks ago. They get there cues from them. The Dutch federation is giving a few of them the chance to play some of the eurotours now... so next week they go to Malaga. From here there is only 1 step higher and that is to get into the Dutch selection of Seniors. You get paid every tournament by the federation and you earned the right to get an b-status. That means you get some money ( i think it's about 400 euro's a month) from the Olympic comittee.. so you can play pool instead of getting a job in the supermarket. Getting a individual medal at the Europeans means you get an a-status... that's about 850 euro a month plus another 400 euro's in enryfee's, trainfare, flightcosts, etc you can deduct... I think that's about it.....:rolleyes:
 
I know that only a small handful of British players could really genuinely be called professionals.

Most of those have, in the past, made their money from a combination of sponsor's help, financial backers, exhibitions, competition wins and money games. There are many British 'pros', but most play the UK version (smaller tables) - in reality though most of these also have to work to keep a roof over their heads. The top snooker players can earn big bucks and are household names, but the top pool players are not known by and large and their earning potential is far less.

Some of the better players have played on the IPT and done pretty well - I think Karl Boyes for example has backers who support him, whereas I think the likes of Darren Appleton and Mick Hill were probably making a decent living out of UK pool alone before the IPT enticed them.

The question of a 'schooling system' has cropped up, but there is no real worthwhile youth system in the UK at all for 8-ball or 9-ball. Some players come through the youth events held by the various splintered UK bodies, but they don't really get much official coaching.

The game is viewed far less scientifically by most UK players - it's learned in the main by trial and error and there is not much coaching around at all. When I read Billiards Digest and see graphs and scientific explanations of pool mechanics I smile at the huge gulf that exists between the approach to the same game here in the UK and across the pond in the US.
 
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