How Do We Aim?

[Shaky1]

So he was showing how to address the ob with side spin.

(They were still straight!!! He says when he is getting good position, every shot is straight!!
My head hurts

)
Sounds like Mike dont use a ld shaft.
And stop with there all straight in.Theres only one shot that is straight in.[/QUOTE]
That's what I thought too! We are both wrong. lol. :smile:
Mike doesn't use a l.d. shaft as far as I know.

 

[Shaky1]

Please excuse the mess! This shot is straight! lol :grin: 2 rails from the foot rail to the center of the table or two rails to the head rail. I used to jaw this shot all the time. I would hit it way too hard.

 

[sfleinen]

Please excuse the mess! This shot is straight! lol :grin: 2 rails from the foot rail to the center of the table or two rails to the head rail. I used to jaw this shot all the time. I would hit it way too hard.

Actually, that shot is not "straight in" either. Center of the cue ball to center of the object ball, that shot is going to hit the short rail, about half a diamond away from the pocket. Hit that one hard, and I wouldn't be surprised if it jaws.

-Sean

 

[8pack]

Actually, that shot is not "straight in" either. Center of the cue ball to center of the object ball, that shot is going to hit the short rail, about half a diamond away from the pocket. Hit that one hard, and I wouldn't be surprised if it jaws.

-Sean

Im lost here ,are you guys talking about a depth perception shot.

 

[sfleinen]

Im lost here ,are you guys talking about a depth perception shot.

Nah, Anthony, look at the shot in Shaky1's picture. That shot is NOT lined-up "dead straight in" -- not unless there's some crazy fisheye lens business going on with the camera that took that pic.

If you line-up the edges of the cue ball with the same edges of the object ball (e.g. if the cue ball and the object ball were in a clear tube), the end of that tube would hit the short rail next to the pocket, not the pocket itself.

At least that's how it appears in the pic. Unless, like I said, there's some fisheye effect going on.

Anyone else see this?
-Sean

 

[Shaky1]

I see what you see. lol 2 rails with the cue and it's straight !
Left or right english and just shoot it straight! It will go right in if you hit it right.:smile:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I aim contact point-to-contact point, so my target is a point (the OB contact point). But I have to hit that point with another point (the CB contact point) which I can't see. Because I can't see the CB point, I can't actually "aim" it directly at the OB point - I have to construct a "shot picture" (an amount of CB/OB overlap, a doubled offset from OB center, etc., etc.) that I calculate (or estimate or guess or whatever) will make the CB point hit the OB point.

This is the sense that I mean we (all of us, no matter what method we use) don't "aim at a point" - we're always, in one way or another, estimating how to line the CB/OB up in some "indirect" way because we can't see the CB point we want to "aim" at the OB point.

pj
chgo

8pack:
Just wondering do you do this on all your shots?

I don't know what you mean exactly. Do what?

If you mean everything I described, I think we all do it on all shots. But from the way you asked your question it sounds like you didn't get what I was saying...?

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I aim contact point-to-contact point, so my target is a point (the OB contact point). But I have to hit that point with another point (the CB contact point) which I can't see. Because I can't see the CB point, I can't actually "aim" it directly at the OB point - I have to construct a "shot picture" (an amount of CB/OB overlap, a doubled offset from OB center, etc., etc.) that I calculate (or estimate or guess or whatever) will make the CB point hit the OB point.

This is the sense that I mean we (all of us, no matter what method we use) don't "aim at a point" - we're always, in one way or another, estimating how to line the CB/OB up in some "indirect" way because we can't see the CB point we want to "aim" at the OB point.

pj
chgo

Not Dead Ted:
You are saying that one cannot "see" centerball????

We can see centerball on both the CB and OB, but we only aim them at each other on straight shots. On all cut shots we're unable to see one thing or another - we're aiming CB center at some estimated target or CB contact point (which we can't see) at OB contact point (assuming we can "see" that).

pj
chgo

 

[Shaky1]

With left spin the squirt throws it into the right place, You aim it as a straight shot and the cue will walk right out to the center of the table.
right side spin will still throw it in the hole.

 

[sfleinen]

I see what you see. lol 2 rails with the cue and it's straight !
Left or right english and just shoot it straight! It will go right in if you hit it right.:smile:

Forget the spin. Try hitting center-cueball on that one, and hit it HARD. Don't compensate with "helping english" or anything like that. Just center ball, and smack it HARD. Watch what happens. I'll bet it jars, or if it doesn't, the cueball at least "wipes its feet" several times before dropping. That's because [if my eyes aren't deceiving me because of some fisheye effect going on in that pic], that's a slight cut shot -- a cut shot to the left. "Straight in" with center ball on the cue ball is going to send that object ball into the short rail, about half a diamond (maybe less) from that corner pocket.

The reason why spin may be helping you:

1. Right english (spin) on that shot is called "helping english." This throws the ball in.

2. Left english may be "squirting" the cue ball to the right, into the proper cut shot angle for that shot in your pic.

Thoughts?
-Sean

 

[Shaky1]

Forget the spin. Try hitting center-cueball on that one, and hit it HARD. Don't compensate with "helping english" or anything like that. Just center ball, and smack it HARD. Watch what happens. I'll bet it jars, or if it doesn't, the cueball at least "wipes its feet" several times before dropping. That's because [if my eyes aren't deceiving me because of some fisheye effect going on in that pic], that's a slight cut shot -- a cut shot to the left. "Straight in" with center ball on the cue ball is going to send that object ball into the short rail, about half a diamond (maybe less) from that corner pocket.

The reason why spin may be helping you:

1. Right english (spin) on that shot is called "helping english." This throws the ball in.

2. Left english may be "squirting" the cue ball to the right, into the proper cut shot angle for that shot in your pic.

Thoughts?
-Sean

That is what happens. This is how Mike Sigel plays the game. It's straight. He uses a lot of spin shots. He does not like center ball.

 

[sfleinen]

That is what happens. This is how Mike Sigel plays the game. It's straight.

Ok, but I don't understand what you mean by "this is how Mike Sigel plays the game." Is this a proposition shot (i.e. "game")?

Or are you trying to say that Mike is saying that spin "doesn't matter" on a straight-in shot -- that it will always go in regardless"?

-Sean

 

[Shaky1]

Ok, but I don't understand what you mean by "this is how Mike Sigel plays the game." Is this a proposition shot (i.e. "game")?

Or are you trying to say that Mike is saying that spin "doesn't matter" on a straight-in shot -- that it will always go in regardless"?

-Sean

no, what I mean is this is how he aims. :smile: That's why he says hit it straight. He does not like to use center ball. He calls center ball a knuckle ball.

 

[sfleinen]

no, what I mean is this is how he aims. :smile: That's why he says hit it straight. He does not like to use center ball. He calls center ball a knuckle ball.

Interesting. I'm from a snooker background, so I'm used to cueing centerball accurately. I understand why he doesn't like centerball, because if you graze the short rail cushion on the way in (with a center-hit / no spin on the object ball), yes, it's going to jar. While the solution is to "stop doing that" (i.e. grazing the short rail's cushion on the way in, and instead aim more accurately), Mike's solution seems to be to use some kind of side spin on the cue ball -- "any side, doesn't matter, ball still goes in."

Not sure I like that approach, but it obviously works for him.

-Sean

 

[8pack]

I don't know what you mean exactly. Do what?

If you mean everything I described, I think we all do it on all shots. But from the way you asked your question it sounds like you didn't get what I was saying...?

pj
chgo

I aim contact point-to-contact point, so my target is a point (the OB contact point). But I have to hit that point with another point (the CB contact point) which I can't see. Because I can't see the CB point, I can't actually "aim" it directly at the OB point - I have to construct a "shot picture" (an amount of CB/OB overlap, a doubled offset from OB center, etc., etc.) that I calculate (or estimate or guess or whatever) will make the CB point hit the OB point.

This.lol

 

[8pack]

Nah, Anthony, look at the shot in Shaky1's picture. That shot is NOT lined-up "dead straight in" -- not unless there's some crazy fisheye lens business going on with the camera that took that pic.

If you line-up the edges of the cue ball with the same edges of the object ball (e.g. if the cue ball and the object ball were in a clear tube), the end of that tube would hit the short rail next to the pocket, not the pocket itself.

At least that's how it appears in the pic. Unless, like I said, there's some fisheye effect going on.

Anyone else see this?
-Sean

The pc im on wont let me see it.lol
I'll look at it later.

 

[Shaky1]

Interesting. I'm from a snooker background, so I'm used to cueing centerball accurately. I understand why he doesn't like centerball, because if you graze the short rail cushion on the way in (with a center-hit / no spin on the object ball), yes, it's going to jar. While the solution is to "stop doing that" (i.e. grazing the short rail's cushion on the way in, and instead aim more accurately), Mike's solution seems to be to use some kind of side spin on the cue ball -- "any side, doesn't matter, ball still goes in."

Not sure I like that approach, but it obviously works for him.

-Sean

It sure does. He likes to shoot most shots kind of hard, but he knows how to put them in the hole.
I find it interesting just listening to him. :smile:

 

[Not Dead Ted]

We can see centerball on both the CB and OB, but we only aim them at each other on straight shots. On all cut shots we're unable to see one thing or another - we're aiming CB center at some estimated target or CB contact point (which we can't see) at OB contact point (assuming we can "see" that).

pj
chgo

On a 30-degree shot, one can see both the CB center and OB edge, can't they?

 

[sfleinen]

It sure does. He likes to shoot most shots kind of hard, but he knows how to put them in the hole.
I find it interesting just listening to him. :smile:

I imagine these "helping" effects of putting spin on the cue ball for nearly-straight-in shots (like that in your pic) are only for fairly close shots -- e.g. a couple diamonds or so.

But crank out that distance to a longer shot ("longer" = distance between cue ball and object ball, and between object ball and pocket), and the "beneficial" effects of the spin will be negated, as the real effects of spin start to take over.

-Sean

 

[Shaky1]

I imagine these "helping" effects of putting spin on the cue ball for nearly-straight-in shots (like that in your pic) are only for fairly close shots -- e.g. a couple diamonds or so.

But crank out that distance to a longer shot ("longer" = distance between cue ball and object ball, and between object ball and pocket), and the "beneficial" effects of the spin will be negated, as the real effects of spin start to take over.

-Sean

Even on longer shots he uses 1/2 tip of outside when possible. He says then you know if you miss it's because of speed. Too hard and you will undercut the shot, not hard enough and you overcut it.
Get the speed right and it goes in everytime. Again, this is how he plays and thinks.