How do we all help improve the image of pocket billiards?

Just wanted to weigh in on this interesting discussion...

Kids vs. adults. This could end up at cross-purposes. Pool being a more "adult" game would indeed discourage kids. But at the same time, a bunch of silly kids would discourage adults. How many adults would participate in golf or bowling, for example, if they were constantly crowded by noisy, silly kids, or a pool room with loud rap playing? Especially higher level players who want a peaceful place where they can concentrate on their shots.

Image. This is a hard one. There are different ways to approach pool. You can play it at home. The wealthiest people in the world have pool tables in their mansions. So do the $50,000-a-night penthouses in Las Vegas. Every city has at least one place that sells fancy, high dollar pool tables and equipment, and they tend to stay in business. And... probably 90% of their customers take the dust covers off their tables twice a year.

But most people don't have a pool table, so they have only one option: go to a pool room. A lot of pool rooms tend to be rather seedy places, with seedy and seedy-looking people. It depends, some are worse that others. But in general, you won't see many BMWs parked in front of Bubba's Pool Hall. Nor will you see Mom and Dad and the kids all piling into the car to go play pool.

Other pool rooms are connected with sports bars or night clubs, where you'll have a bar area with a bunch of TVs showing sports, and a pool table area on one side.

There's also scarcity to deal with. A big city of half a million people might have 2 or 3 pool rooms, maybe 4, and at least a 2 of those won't be places where most people would go. So if you don't have a pool table, the ONLY option you have is to go to a room, wherever that may be.

I remember a big, popular pool room in a city of several hundred thousand. Big place, nice music, good tables and equipment. Waitresses bringing you all kinds of hot food to eat while you played (wings, pizza, etc. and a full bar). Nice, eh? No. It's in a high-crime area. The typical patrons, well, let's say they're not people you would want knocking on the front door to pick your daughter up for a date. Neither are the hookers strolling back and forth past the front door. That's the nearest pool room to where I live, about an hour's drive away.

And there's NOTHING you can do about that. I mean, what do you want Fast Eddie's to do, implement a dress code? They'd go broke in a week.

Appeal. Another tough one. To people who grew up with modern, intense electronic entertainment and extreme sports, shooting pool, especially if you're not very good at it, is about as exciting as watching paint dry. You stroke a ball, it goes into a pocket. Click, click, thump. Yeah. Real heart attack stuff, eh? Pool on TV is boring, as well. The people good enough to be on TV just make shot after shot after shot. Yawn. They're skilled, but for 99% of the viewers out there, there's really nothing to see on a TV screen, certainly nothing to stop them from clicking the "Channel" button on the remote.

This is the same situation a lot of "traditional" pastimes are in, such as electric trains, ham radio, model airplanes, darkrooms, or playing checkers. These activities are fading, too, for much the same reasons pool is, although they still have their "niche" fans.

Even if you get past all this and become a "serious" player, you're most likely going to play alone most of the time. My wife loves to shoot with me on our table here at home, but she's lucky to hit the cue ball with the cue. My kids couldn't care less about it. Go to a mall and watch 500 people walk past. How many of that 500 do you think are serious, regular pool players?

Likewise, there's not much of a support system in place for playing pool. You don't see "pool shops" in the mall, or pool magazines on magazine racks, or pool stuff being advertised on TV commercials or in magazines.

One thing that might kick up its popularity would be for a big celebrity to publicize it. Say a president that liked to shoot pool in the White House. People nowadays are so obsessed with celebrities, something like that could have an impact. Or maybe a good Hollywood movie, but that's unlikely.

I hate to say it, but for the time being, I think pool is going to continue to be another "niche" activity, not something that's going to become a major American pastime.
 
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accidently hit a few times with Paul Newman and Tom Cruise.

Just wanted to weigh in on this interesting discussion...


Even if you get past all this and become a "serious" player, you're most likely going to play alone most of the time. My wife loves to shoot with me on our table here at home, but she's lucky to hit the cue ball with the cue. My kids couldn't care less about it. Go to a mall and watch 500 people walk past. How many of that 500 do you think are serious, regular pool players?

Likewise, there's not much of a support system in place for playing pool. You don't see "pool shops" in the mall, or pool magazines on magazine racks, or pool stuff being advertised on TV commercials or in magazines. You don't see any electric train shops, either, ya' know?

One thing that might kick up its popularity would be for a big celebrity to publicize it. Say a president that liked to shoot pool in the White House. People nowadays are so obsessed with celebrities, something like that could have an impact. Or maybe a good Hollywood movie, but that's unlikely.

I hate to say it, but for the time being, I think pool is going to continue to be another "niche" activity, not something that's going to become a major American pastime.

You hit the nail on the head with your celebrity comment.....and there's a niche' market that has not been addressed and it's the same market that has brought SO MUCH SUCCE$$ to the snooker of England....there's a possibly that the wrong target market has been catered to this whole time and accidently hit a few times with Paul Newman and Tom Cruise.
 
n0risc...That is a great idea! Having the ability to live stream on demand, and affordably would be a great way to share great play, and increase awareness.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

To unify and improve the image of billiards, this is what I've been developing for the past year.

I've been developing a private interactive billiard streaming network. I have also engineered permanent and portable streaming kits for billiard establishments and tournament venues to drive the cost of live streaming down and make it more affordable for those who have not live streamed before.

I'm hoping in the next couple of years OSPN technology will be scattered throughout the world in pool rooms and tournament venues where billiard enthusiasts can come to the website and peer into pool rooms that are streaming their local talent.

As the network grows it will open the possibility to generate revenue for billiard establishments, tournament productions, and the players through a royalty program. We could see very large money added tournaments again. OSPN is geared to protect recorded billiard content, as currently content is sold out to mass streaming sites for exposure and bragging rights rendering the content worthless. The billiard industry looses out on millions of dollars of advertising revenue because of this.

Despite many who've shot the idea point blank in the head, It has generated a large inquiry from the live billiard streaming community around the world.

I'm looking for support from the AZBilliard community to back the idea and make it successful.

Happy Posting!
 
Jay...Tap, tap, tap! I too have spent the past 40 years playing, teaching, promoting pool, and performing pocket billiards shows, to fans and enthusiasts nationwide! I consider myself extremely fortunate that I can make a living doing the thing I love most. I'm on the road 200+ days a year, but I go where I want, when I want. One of the best things is all the nice people I get to meet. I hope we have a chance to have a beer sometime, and maybe hit a ball or two! LOL :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I started a BCA pool league after meeting with many bar owners. We started with 34 teams.

I got the results published in the local paper. The paper got the results of play even before the players did. Results included Standings, weekly results and outstanding individual play. Don't think that the players didn't want to see their name in the paper. (BTW, it wasn't that hard, the paper got 34 potential advertisers and the possiblity of selling 200+ more papers on a slow Tuesday, the bars got free recognition every week.)

I incorporated billiards into the youth programs sponsored by the city and gave free lessons to the city youth along with playing.

I started an in-house league for the local Senior center.

I have given numerous four hours lesson seminars.

I have helped in the creation of youth leagues.

I give help anyone that has a question of the game.

All of the above were done for free. No money went into my pocket.

I helped in putting on Casino pool tournaments in ND, SD and MN.

I give individual lessons.

I still want to be part of a program that would entail traveling around and talking to school boards about having an after school billiards program. I've always hoped that the BEF would take that under their wing.

Just think, all of us pool players, players with children, players without children, are paying taxes for the schools. If somehow they could unite in their city and put it before the school board with the help of a professional. Finally a program that would appeal to not just the "lost" kids, but, all kids. A program that wouldn't be judged on height or weight or sex. Sounds perfect to me.

If I've made a difference in one childs life through my endeavors, that is enough for me. It was hard writing this because I don't talk much about these things. But, if it gives some ideas to others it's a good thing.

Jay
 
Be on ONE TEAM, with one common agenda. Pro Motion!of Pool :grin:

Jay...Tap, tap, tap! I too have spent the past 40 years playing, teaching, promoting pool, and performing pocket billiards shows, to fans and enthusiasts nationwide! I consider myself extremely fortunate that I can make a living doing the thing I love most. I'm on the road 200+ days a year, but I go where I want, when I want. One of the best things is all the nice people I get to meet. I hope we have a chance to have a beer sometime, and maybe hit a ball or two! LOL :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

It's the People like you that makes this thread worth while....there are many people that already to a lot for Pocket Billiards and I think it would be really good to team up and make each other more effective. I'm developing quite a list, so if there's anyone else that wants to share "what have you have done in the past" or "what are YOU willing to do now, from this point on" please feel free to post as soon as possible. I believe it's GREAT for people to not tell what OTHER people "should" do, but what THEY HAVE DONE. I want to be on ONE TEAM, with one common agenda. Pro Motion!of Pool :grin:
 
VERY IMPRESSIVE.....Certainly Promoting Positive Pool as an Ambassador worldwide.



I believe in Positively Promoting Pocket Billiards! To me it's a Vibrant Game and Challenging Sport with Endless Possibilities, it's Who I Am and What I Do.

Promoting the game by spreading the Positive Image of Billiards thru Pool Websites, YouTube, Facebook pages and in my personal life. My confirmed weekly reach is 33,873. The confirmed Monthly reach is 135,492. For the last 365 days my confirmed reach has been 1,519,011.

These figures are statistically generated from Facebook Pages, YouTube and Google Searches, their synergistic reach is OVER Three Million People a Year, contributing to 12 Websites a year with Positive Pool Content and also doing Trick Shot Shows & Teaching Beginner to Intermediate Players. I am also working on other DVD's as well.

I Promote with the idea that pool can one day gain popularity like other sports and games when WE with Vision Team Together as Ambassadors for Billiards.

A Dozen Trick Shots with Mary Avina pool snooker

Three Fundamental 9-ball shots Avina

The 10 by 5 Snooker Table with Mary Avina

Champion trick shot artists demonstrate their skills

More Videos

http://www.facebook.com/Mary.Avina.TrickShotPrincess

These Credintials are going to be challenging to compete with :wink: Mary, you are certainly an Ambasitor of Pocket Billiards....Our team is forming, who else wants to get involved with our one common goal: Promoting Pool Positively City Wide, State Wide, Country Wide and like Mary - World Wide

Thanks and the Game appreciates EVERYONE that actively gets involved: 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Great thread.

As several have already noted, I think the kids are the key to pool's future. As one poster noted, if pool were somehow integrated into what kids do at school, it would really help. Still, I feel that another thing that keeps the kids away is that the pool halls of America are not kid-friendly enough. Each of us should strive to do our part in making the pool halls of America more civil and kid-friendly. At the pool hall, players need to be tastefully attired and well behaved, Pool room proprietors need to strictly enforce a behavioral code and must not allow predatory types to feast on new customers.

Far too many parents see the poolrooms as too dangerous a place for their kids, and we've got to change that. Each of us has a responsibility in bringing us closer to this goal.

Yes, this is "IT" in a nutshell. The problem is a large number of players want the atmosphere of todays pool hall with all the money. This just isn't sustainable. Mary Avena is trying to reach out to the rest of the world, but that just may be bringing the lambs to the slaughter. Although, I do believe she is heading in the right direction. TCOM looks good on the big screen but comes across very seedy when performed in real life.

The pool rooms need to uphold higher standards for their environment too. Problem is, I don't know if they could stay in business long enough to attract new patrons. If you want to know just how well people accept change, read some of the smoking ban threads.

The last piece of the change puzzle is the player. Players need ensure that they are creating an atmosphere for all people. I am including myself in the change plan.
 
problem with the younger generation is that their interests tend into another direction and that the mentality is changing;

- new gadgets see life everyday, the young generation prefers to play on facebook or whatever, even when they are out, viva the smartphones (i hate those phones :embarrassed2: )

- look at the amount of online games ("free"online games) that flood the market. it seems to me that people dont want to live any more in the real world, its much more fun being somewhere else :wink:

- even in these new "worlds", the gameplay is set up for easy access, instant gratification, just spend enough time

for the last point; pool, as all forms of billiards, is technically and mentally a very demanding and challenging game/sport/passtime.
but nowadays even PC games are brought to an absolute minimum of challenge. because noone wants to take the "journey", effort over a long period of time is not wanted anymore.

pool is, in this point of view, like some martial arts... its evolution over time... even throughout the entire life.

what can WE do to access at least these few people who want to enjoy our beautifull sport?

- in a poolhall, dont hide in the last corner, show what you can do, the people will aknowledge someone who runs a rack without banging the balls around
- behave like a sportsman(or woman), be nice with people, explain them the different games, dont treat them as "dumb bangers"
- conversation; even though i never got this guy to the pooltable i had a nice conversation with him about... WOOD. :cool: behave like a gentleman, people who see poolplayers that behave good, they will assimilate pool to nice people (some basic psychologie :) )
- search for contact: last time we had some guests in our club who wanted to play a little bit but where intimidated by ower league players, we invited them to play a scotch double. one experienced player with one of the guests. we explained some basics (bridge, grip, stance) and played for about 2 hours with them, we had a lot of fun and they sometimes came back. to play or just to talk a little bit.
-"dresscode": i dont want everyone to suit up when he goes to play pool. hell no but plzzzzzzzz stop playing in tanktops (with 10 inch long hair out of the armpits), and other "redneck" style. (i dont want to offend anyone here :smile: ) you wouldnt show up like this at work? golfclub? actually nowhere where you want to be respected!

all in all: if you want pool to be more respected, its the poolplayers that have to start to show some respect for their sport!

hmm this post got longer than i thought ;) and sorry if there are some grammatical mistakes but i hope the mainidea comes through
 
Mary Avina is trying to reach out to the rest of the world

Yes, this is "IT" in a nutshell. The problem is a large number of players want the atmosphere of todays pool hall with all the money. This just isn't sustainable. Mary Avina is trying to reach out to the rest of the world, but that just may be bringing the lambs to the slaughter. Although, I do believe she is heading in the right direction.

217625_10151093127089520_682469126_n.jpg

I personally don't think pocket billiards is a kid's game....I wouldn't want my kids to play either honestly...but it is an older person's game....instead of making kids eat their "pool spinach" let's all direct our attention to our elderly and soon to be retired people......they are the ones that really need pool in their lives....it's great exercise, mentally, physically and even Spiritually .....Jesus said religion was visiting the elderly and giving to the poor.....we have a chance to do both, visit them, play pool with them and share with them our time....I do this regularly on line...I enjoy helping older people enjoy pool......the kids want the virtual world and that's beyond my ability to be a good influence....this is the influence of our current "world"... imho
 
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From McDonalds in beautiful Lawrence, KS

Triple Tap to you too Scott. Thank you for the kind words. I hope to be that way next summer when Michigan is beautiful. I used to live in the Ann Arbor and Detroit area for a number of years. I'll be more than happy to hit some. If I was stationary somewhere, I'd invite you but I am retired and living the life of a nomad.

Jay...Tap, tap, tap! I too have spent the past 40 years playing, teaching, promoting pool, and performing pocket billiards shows, to fans and enthusiasts nationwide! I consider myself extremely fortunate that I can make a living doing the thing I love most. I'm on the road 200+ days a year, but I go where I want, when I want. One of the best things is all the nice people I get to meet. I hope we have a chance to have a beer sometime, and maybe hit a ball or two! LOL :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
The Game is the Teacher....Everyone can do their part

hello cj check out my website. i think u will really enjoy it

I like it and I'm sure it gets a lot of attention. Let me know if I can help you generate more interest by being of service. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
exciting

tournament pool today is about as exciting as curling. limit the number of safeties per rack (1) and use the alternating break format.

observers love shot makers/risk takers.
 
we played with a 20 second shot clock

tournament pool today is about as exciting as curling. limit the number of safeties per rack (1) and use the alternating break format.

observers love shot makers/risk takers.

Yes, the "dead" time is an issue.....we played with a 20 second shot clock one time in Memphis (anyone see that tournament, Roger Griffis won), and it was great to create a nice steady pace to the matches. This particular tournament had a "no safety" format that I thought was a bit severe....but one rule I would like to see implemented is that the incoming player could ALWAYS refuse the shot on a miss....just not on a safety and that "one safety a game" rule would be fine....also, once a game you could play two shots at the same time (if you make one you continue shooting) and you could play a two way safe once a game (shoot at a shot and play safe at the same time..incoming player would have to shoot on that miss), because taking a "free shot" is a skillful part of any rotation game...and of course the jump cue isn't really needed at the pro level.
 
I personally don't think pocket billiards is a kid's game....I wouldn't want my kids to play either honestly...but it is an older person's game....instead of making kids eat their "pool spinach" let's all direct our attention to our elderly and soon to be retired people......they are the ones that really need pool in their lives....it's great exercise, mentally, physically and even Spiritually .....Jesus said religion was visiting the elderly and giving to the poor.....we have a chance to do both, visit them, play pool with them and share with them our time....I do this regularly on line...I enjoy helping older people enjoy pool......the kids want the virtual world and that's beyond my ability to be a good influence....this is the influence of our current "world"... imho

Hello everyone,

Well, instead of words, as an example I give you some links to see for yourselves what has been and, is being done (I purposely use the passive voice here as, although I have been, for a long time now, a part of this process – I do not want to give the impression about self-boasting) about pool in some other parts of the World :smile:

2011 Polish Championships for school kids:
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/2011/mp_uks_2/index.html
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/2011/mp_uks_2011_1/index.html


2011 Polish Championships for Juniors and Girls:
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/fotompjunior20111/index.html
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/2011/fotompjunior20112/index.html
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/2011/fotompjunior20113/index.html
http://www.bilard-sport.pl/zdjecia/galerie/2011/foto_mp_junior_2011_4/index.html

Regards to all and let's think positive :smile:
 
I started playing at age 7 so I can relate

Hello again,
I am sorry, I actually could not resist giving you some more links, as I think these are much better pictures:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.345091062218228.81187.144448045615865&type=1
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.345767605483907.81361.144448045615865&type=1
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.347040365356631.81680.144448045615865&type=1

I hope it is not against the forum rules to give so many links (???):smile:
Regards

I started playing at age 7 so I can relate.....but do you as a parent want your children going to a pool room these days? ....times have changed and kids are more in to virtual reality games than ever...at least from my perspective or what's going on in the billiard community. Unfortunately for players in the USA the government doesn't support Kids Playing Pool or the Professional Players like in most other countries...that's why so many other countries have produced a string of younger champion speed players. The USA hasn't and won't.
 
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What is your most popular age demographic



I believe in Positively Promoting Pocket Billiards! To me it's a Vibrant Game and Challenging Sport with Endless Possibilities, it's Who I Am and What I Do.

Promoting the game by spreading the Positive Image of Billiards thru Pool Websites, YouTube, Facebook pages and in my personal life. My confirmed weekly reach is 33,873. The confirmed Monthly reach is 135,492. For the last 365 days my confirmed reach has been 1,519,011.

These figures are statistically generated from Facebook Pages, YouTube and Google Searches, their synergistic reach is OVER Three Million People a Year, contributing to 12 Websites a year with Positive Pool Content and also doing Trick Shot Shows & Teaching Beginner to Intermediate Players. I am also working on other DVD's as well.

I Promote with the idea that pool can one day gain popularity like other sports and games when WE with Vision Team Together as Ambassadors for Billiards.

A Dozen Trick Shots with Mary Avina pool snooker

Three Fundamental 9-ball shots Avina

The 10 by 5 Snooker Table with Mary Avina

Champion trick shot artists demonstrate their skills

More Videos

http://www.facebook.com/Mary.Avina.TrickShotPrincess

What is your most popular age demographic for billiards fans, Mary? :confused:
 
In answer to the original question "we all" do not need to improve the image of pocket Billiards. Those of us who are decent, honest, respectable and respectful human beings only need to keep doing what we are doing.

Exterminating the vermin would improve the image of pocket Billiards but it would lessen the rest of us as human beings. The vermin raising their standards would also help but a cull is probably more likely.
 
For me personally, I have had the pleasure of introducing billiards and pool to many of my friends. Some of them liked it for a while, then hated it, and some liked it for a while and kept on liking it. Most tell me they're simply too busy for it, which I understand. I bring many new people to the parlor all the time. I like to show them a variety of games, carom and pocket, to play. The most popular among all is 8-ball, which kind of makes me wonder why.
 
I agree, something needs to be done. Here in the uk 9 ball, 8 ball and 14.1 both English and American styles are not televised. Even snooker, our national cue sport is only televised nationwide maybe 4 times a year.

A few suggestions;

-all televised events big or small should have a strict dress code. Now I know its not the Oscars but playing on TV looking like your on vacation in Florida? Viewers will take it more seriously and as a result will be more likely to take up the sport.

-get into the Olympics. Mosconi format. When it does, which it will cue sports will attract new players world wide.

-pool halls need to change. When I first started playing at the age of 15 my local pool hall was full of drunks it had a 'dirty' feel about it. Make it more accessable to younger players. They are the future.

-am I right in thinking its mandatory in schools in the Philippines? Or at least its an option. Why not give kids a choice of playing a cue sport at school?

-im not sure if they have this in the US, but have a national league like the nfl or a tour like the PGA. This will have regular televised events each week.

A few in game changes to nake it more viewable;

-larger tables. 10, 11 or even 12ft

-tighter pockets. More misses is a good thing! Now I admire watching someone run 6 racks back to back but new viewers won't.

-alternate breaks. Why should a game be decided on who wins the lag? Which tends to happen more and more these days

-no push outs. Be a man and admire your opponents safety, say nice shot and try your hardest to get out of it! Don't punish a good safety by then having to play a difficult bank.

Basically anything that makes the game tougher for the pros is a good thing IMO. Its too easy for many players. I'm not saying make it so hard its like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Just make it more challenging.

Well that's my 2 cents.

Pidge
 
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