How do you compensate for squirt and throw?
- Thread starter Flex
- Start date
PoolSleuth
Banned
Experence with the shots is the best teacher, and lots of practice.
Flex said:
I find my aiming point, get down and fire it in the hole. 40 plus years of practice and playing, I guess subconsciously, I know how to hit it. I do not think about throw, squirt, swerve, or anything like that when I'm shooting. I may not hit them all, but I get a pretty good percentage of them. You seem to be looking for an answer that no one can provide.
"Take the ghost ball spot, shift two degrees left if you are putting 1.5 tips of left english, and then back half a degree if you have a "low deflection" shaft, but only if you are stroking to have 18mph speed on the cue at impact."
There are too many variables to consider to give a proper answer to that question. You just have to learn how the cue ball is going to react to different strokes. There is no black and white method to it. You may get a lot of opinions on this thread...but I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you how to aim.
JMHO
Steve
Flex said:
I'm working on a system now that I am very satisfied with. It has adjustments for squirt and throw built in, based upon your cue's pivot point.
I introduced some rules in this thread:
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=21818
But I made at least one mistake on Rule 2. For IE, I've worked out the brindge length needs to be lengthened, not shortened.
Also, the system needs to take into account the distance of the CB from the OB.
I am doing testing now and will post a more comprehensive and accurate version of this system once I've established them.
pooltchr said:I find my aiming point, get down and fire it in the hole. 40 plus years of practice and playing, I guess subconsciously, I know how to hit it. I do not think about throw, squirt, swerve, or anything like that when I'm shooting. I may not hit them all, but I get a pretty good percentage of them. You seem to be looking for an answer that no one can provide.
"Take the ghost ball spot, shift two degrees left if you are putting 1.5 tips of left english, and then back half a degree if you have a "low deflection" shaft, but only if you are stroking to have 18mph speed on the cue at impact."
There are too many variables to consider to give a proper answer to that question. You just have to learn how the cue ball is going to react to different strokes. There is no black and white method to it. You may get a lot of opinions on this thread...but I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you how to aim.
JMHO
Steve
Steve, thanks for your VERY thoughtful post. It helps make my point, which is that this type of shot is not something that is to be taken for granted, or left to the magicians. You mention "40 years" of practice. Now THAT is something. I agree with you, and have an idea about how to proceed for those, like me, who are novices at this.
Actually, I played around with this thing this afternoon.
This kind of shot is most difficult, or else you wouldn't have mentioned the 40 years stuff.
I found out how to make these shots work, at least for me, this afternoon. Others may have different experiences. In any case, I'll share what I learned today.
I set up a shot with the object ball about 8 inches off the long rail, and perhaps 24 inches or so from the corner pocket. The cue ball was 5 diamonds or so away, downtable. The exact location is not important, for this explanation.
I shot the cue ball with a slight force follow with english, and found out where the object ball went, depending on my stroke and so on.
I was *stroking* the ball as firmly as I'll ever do, that is, it was a *firm* or *hard* stroke.
Finding out where the object ball hit, I adjusted my aim on the object ball, and figured out where I should aim if I were to shoot it straight on, and then went about shooting it with english, etc. If I didn't pot the ball with shape, I reshot it.
By golly, I found out that I needed sometimes to make up to a *whole diamond* compensation to pot that sucker!!
This is no "18 degree" this or "24 degree" that calculation... this is something that everybody can work out for themselves, on their table, with their balls, and their stroke, and make happen.
What I'm suggesting is that all the variables that come into play in this situation can be figured out by those clever enough to do so, and we should all try our hand at it, it's within our grasp...
Good luck at it!
Flex
Colin Colenso said:
Colin, I'm looking forward to your post on this.
Although "feel" is most important, reference points for shots are key, too.
And memory of all this stuff is not to be disregarded either.
The more I get into this, the more I realize that knowledge of one's cue, the table, the balls, and so on, as well as one's state of mind when shooting, are of primary importance! LOL
Thanks for your most helpful ideas!
Flex
Flex, that's probably the way most people finally get those shots down. Hitting them over and over, till you know instinctively how much compensation is too much or not enough ... I know I enjoy low-inside running english backcuts WAY too much --- because I'm out of line WAY too often.
theres always the point and pivot method, but it doesnt work for certain bridge lengths and extreme english. but really, i think eventually you just need to work it out yourself. after you hit enough you really dont need to worry about it much.
if you want to learn faster try practicing racks with just right english and then just left.
if you want to learn faster try practicing racks with just right english and then just left.
Travis Bickle said:Flex, that's probably the way most people finally get those shots down. Hitting them over and over, till you know instinctively how much compensation is too much or not enough ... I know I enjoy low-inside running english backcuts WAY too much --- because I'm out of line WAY too often.
That's music to my ears!
At this point, when I hear someone tell me my stance was better on my latest shot versus my penultimate shot (well, they don't actually say that, lol) I know they haven't a clue about what's happening....
And they tell you this game is simple?? Give me a break!
The complexity of it inspires me...
I am very methodical, and I used to think about collision induced throw, english, deflection all that stuff. Actually I still do, however my best run outs and phenominal shots are done with little analyzing. I find the point to hit where the ball will hit center pocket but other than that, I let everything just take care of itself. Recently some guy tried showing me a few things like cuting thinner or aiming a different parts of the pocket. However the best thing for me is just playing till I get comfortable shooting these shots. third_i, are you saying sometimes you aim like 2 inches left or right of the pocket?
Oh yeah one thing I used when I was a novice to compensate for throw was hitting the ball a little harder. Less contact time, less throw. This was my novice technique, I've learned much more since then. Lastly I have a few places where I shoot pool, cold, slightly humid and has clean balls, there seems to be less throw at this place. One of the others is a hot sticky place, very little humidity; so sticky and dirty that sometimes when I rack 9-ball and slide the rack forward, the one ball sticks to the rack. Crazy throw in that room.
Oh yeah one thing I used when I was a novice to compensate for throw was hitting the ball a little harder. Less contact time, less throw. This was my novice technique, I've learned much more since then. Lastly I have a few places where I shoot pool, cold, slightly humid and has clean balls, there seems to be less throw at this place. One of the others is a hot sticky place, very little humidity; so sticky and dirty that sometimes when I rack 9-ball and slide the rack forward, the one ball sticks to the rack. Crazy throw in that room.
Some cues deflect more than others and you have too play/practice with your cue to see how much it deflects when applying english and how much to allow on your shots. Practice is the best teacher and shooting shots over and over will show you what you need to work on.Flex said:There has to be a way to pot those balls consistently, with a power stroke, with english, and get shape. And I can't beileve it's to be left up to "experience" alone... Perhaps this is an area where secrets really do exist...
Flex
I decided to try a predator shaft on my cue and after I got used to how it played it has helped me more than anything i've tried in dealing with deflection. There has to be something good about predator shafts since so many pro players use them. I can play with regular shafts OK, but I find it easier playing with a predator shaft.
SCCues