How do you make this shot?

[mnShooter]

Sixpacks post about straight left not causing swerve got me to thinking. Maybe the lower the cueball is hit the more squirt there is. Just like when you hit lower you get more english. e.g. When you hit bottom left you get more english than with top left.

I usually use back hand english or just by feel but I can never make this shot with any consistency. With backhand english I always overcut it. So how do you make this shot?

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is it the same as this?

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%]a2M1%^L0C4%eC6b3
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[Rude Dog]

Bottom right english. Yes, same shot, 2nd one needs more stroke though.

 

[Scott Lee]

mnshooter...You do not get "more" english (sidespin) with bottom than topspin. It just curves differently after contact with the OB (topspin bends across the tangent line, and draw bends away from the tangent line), and comes off the rail differently. The amount of sidespin contained on the CB depends on how far out on the edge of the CB you strike, and how much speed you shoot with...nothing more (unless the stick is elevated enough to produce some masse effect). BTW, the two jpegs you posted are exactly the same.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Colin Colenso]

Sixpacks post about straight left not causing swerve got me to thinking. Maybe the lower the cueball is hit the more squirt there is. Just like when you hit lower you get more english. e.g. When you hit bottom left you get more english than with top left.

I usually use back hand english or just by feel but I can never make this shot with any consistency. With backhand english I always overcut it. So how do you make this shot?

START(
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%eC6b3
)END

is it the same as this?

START(
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%]a2M1%^L0C4%eC6b3
)END

A few points:

Using BHE over different distances often requires adjusting, for either squirt or swerve (especially when bottom is applied).

The amount of side spin on a draw shot is actually less in terms of rotations per second or angular momentum, but as the back spin slows the CB down, the ration of speed to spin on these shots can be higher. Note: I don't think squirt is higher for draw. It's main variables are tip offset from center line and speed.

From testing I've done on Inside English (IE) shots like the ones you show, I've found that the contact point required is actually very close to the contact required for natural roll, but with the addition of backspin, you probably need to aim for a half pocket undercut, which would be the same as you would aim for a power draw or power follow shot on this angle.

On the closer shot, as you are hitting it hard, and missing by overcutting, I suggest you try the shot with a shorter bridge length than you are currently using. Or use the same bridge length and aim to undercut my a few more inches. I suggest you test the shorter bridge first, bring it in to your pivot point for the speed you are playing, which for me is about 8-10" on that speed of shot. My usual bridge length being closer to 16" which would work on the shot at slower speed.

For the longer shot, it's likely that swerve will come into effect, so you may have to lengthen the bridge several inches. It will take some experience to know how much to adjust the bridge for various speeds and various distances, but some experimentation like this will put you in the ball park and give you a chance to make these shots with some level of consistancy.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Sixpacks post about straight left not causing swerve got me to thinking. Maybe the lower the cueball is hit the more squirt there is. Just like when you hit lower you get more english. e.g. When you hit bottom left you get more english than with top left.

I usually use back hand english or just by feel but I can never make this shot with any consistency. With backhand english I always overcut it. So how do you make this shot?
...

To begin with, Sixpacks is wrong if he said that straight left doesn't cause swerve if he was talking about normal shots. If the stick has any elevation, the ball will swerve. You elevate on 99% or more of your shots. So does everyone else. The rails force you to, as do your knuckles on draw shots.

The ball will tend to do it's swerving sooner with follow and side spin, but the swerving will usually not be as large an angle as with draw.

You only get more apparent english with draw than with follow because the draw slows the ball down and you have more side spin for the speed of the ball. This is well covered in Byrne's books.

If you expect backhand english to solve this problem, you're headed for continuous disappointment. This shot is just one of many, many shots where BHE will give a bogus answer unless you apply a lot of conscious or subconscious correction.

If you're overcutting the ball, aim fuller. You can force BHE to give this answer by using a much shorter bridge.

As for how I aim the shot, I just bring the stick down where it feels right to make the shot.

 

[mnShooter]

Good info guys. I think Colin's on the right track here.

I am overcutting the ball. So I will try aiming to miss by a half pocket or so just like I do with outside english. Although with outside english I am already used to doing this subconsiously through trial and error. I think for me 1 tip = 1/4 pocket, 2 tips = 1/2 pocket and 3 tips = full pocket. I'll have to try it when I hit the table tonight.

BTW the only difference between the two shots is the cueball is farther away. To compensate I will just use more stroke.