How do you test the deflection of a cue?

[thepavlos]

I know this topic may have been beat to death before, but I am just wondering; what kind of shots do you set up to test the amount a cue deflects.
Thanks
Paul

I usually freeze a ball to the foot rail; then place the cue ball on the spot and try to cut it using only side english

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I usually freeze a ball to the foot rail; then place the cue ball on the spot and try to cut it using only side english

That's what I usually try. The last time I tried out a student's cue -- to which he was not particularly attached, fortunately -- I had to aim half a ball on the wrong side of the object ball to cut it in with max side spin. Yes, a ball and a half of squirt in six diamonds.

Another procedure that gives you the stick's pivot point is in the RSB FAQ at
http://www.sfbilliards.com/faq.html -- search for the word squirt or go to item 7.

 

[Gerald]

Couldn't access # 7. I have in the past hit the cue ball with extreme right and left english from 1 diamond back from the head spot down the table over the foot spot with varying speeds from hard to soft. Gives me what I have felt a good indication.

 

[Gerald]

Sorry, didn't scroll down far enough. Found # 7

 

[cueball1950]

I know this topic may have been beat to death before, but I am just wondering; what kind of shots do you set up to test the amount a cue deflects.
Thanks
Paul

I usually freeze a ball to the foot rail; then place the cue ball on the spot and try to cut it using only side english

Very simple. put the cue ball on the head spot and aim for the middle diamond on the bottom rail and see where it hits in relation to the diamond. i think that is the simplest way. you could even use a piece of carbon pasper to mard the rail where it hit. just tape the top piece of the carbon paper to the rail, let the rest hang down over the rail and when the cueball hits it it will mark the spot. that is what bob meucci did at the open a few years ago...................................................mike

 

[Billy_Bob]

So far as I am concerned, when using english... if I can get the cue ball to go to the same spot as a dead center hit, then I am happy. I can do this by using the pivot point of a regular shaft or by using a low deflection shaft like the Predator 314.

So with a long shot using english, I would aim at the far center diamond with a dead center hit and do this 10 times. Then do the same using english 10 times.

If you want to be scientific, then read the following...

Ron Shepard's paper on squirt...
(See "Squirt Measurements:" page 10)
http://www.sfbilliards.com/Shepard_squirt.pdf

 

[X Breaker]

I have tried the 314 and sometimes it seemed to me that I had to aim at the wrong side in order to make the ball. Mind you, I am not a good player and my techniques are most likely full of flaws.
What I am trying to say is that when using outside English on a long shot, I had to sometimes aim fuller rather than thinner to make the ball. Someone told me it is because with the 314, the cue ball will curve back faster. I cannot really understand how that could be possible.
I am also having problem when I am hitting the ball soft with lots of english. It seems again I have to adjust by hitting the opposite side of the ball. I think it is because of the throwing effect. Am I right or wrong?
Is there something I should know that I don't about the 314?

 

[drivermaker]

Is there something I should know that I don't about the 314?

The question I have for you is...you have all of those great cues and shafts at your disposal, why do you even opt to use a 314? Did you get sucked in by all the hype and advertising also? If they're not going in...use something else until it does. And if NOTHING makes balls go in...get some lessons. (not trying to be a wise ass...I mean it)

 

[X Breaker]

The question I have for you is...you have all of those great cues and shafts at your disposal, why do you even opt to use a 314? Did you get sucked in by all the hype and advertising also? If they're not going in...use something else until it does. And if NOTHING makes balls go in...get some lessons. (not trying to be a wise ass...I mean it)

Hi Drivermaker,

I have never really played with a Predator shaft. When I was speaking to some friends, they told me about the curving of the cue ball that I described in my last post. Out of curiousity, I tried it. I tried it with a Predator 2 and I also had a Z shaft built for me by Thierry Layani so I can compare the difference.

You see, one of my biggest hobbies is to try out different cues and shafts. I know, may be I should get a life rather than get a lesson.

Anyway, I have been very frustrated because I am missing the easiest shots especially with the Z shaft!

But I do not want to dismiss a product because it is not working for me. There are lots of reasons why it is not working and most of the reasons are unrelated to the shaft itself. I am just trying to find out if it is really true that the cue ball will curve back sooner and if it is, why? If not, then why do I always have to aim thicker for ouside english on long shots?

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Billy_Bob]

I have tried the 314 and sometimes it seemed to me that I had to aim at the wrong side in order to make the ball. Mind you, I am not a good player and my techniques are most likely full of flaws.
What I am trying to say is that when using outside English on a long shot, I had to sometimes aim fuller rather than thinner to make the ball. Someone told me it is because with the 314, the cue ball will curve back faster. I cannot really understand how that could be possible.
I am also having problem when I am hitting the ball soft with lots of english. It seems again I have to adjust by hitting the opposite side of the ball. I think it is because of the throwing effect. Am I right or wrong?
Is there something I should know that I don't about the 314?

The way I see it, a regular shaft shoots a *lot* differently than a low deflection shaft. If you have learned how to play with a regular shaft and have been playing for 20 years, then it will probably be almost impossible to re-learn how to shoot with a low deflection shaft.

However, it you are new to playing, then a low deflection shaft will make it much easier to learn to shoot long shots with english.

But you need to select one shaft or the other, then only use that shaft from then on. Because these shafts play so differently, it would certainly mess me up if I was switching back and forth!

So basically pick your shaft, then you need to learn how to play with your shaft. Hummm, that sounds nasty! Anyway there is a lot more to cut shots than just cue ball deflection. Just need to learn how to make each shot using center hit, left english, and right english. This will come with practice practice, practice...

 

[unknownpro]

Very simple. put the cue ball on the head spot and aim for the middle diamond on the bottom rail and see where it hits in relation to the diamond. i think that is the simplest way. you could even use a piece of carbon pasper to mard the rail where it hit. just tape the top piece of the carbon paper to the rail, let the rest hang down over the rail and when the cueball hits it it will mark the spot. that is what bob meucci did at the open a few years ago...................................................mike

I was looking at Bob's machine at the U.S. Open while he was testing shafts. Dennis Hatch had his shaft tested and was worried about his shaft deflecting more compared to the Meucci's. But I told Dennis that the machine did not have his stroke, so the results meant nothing. Dennis finished second on the Camel tour that year placing in the top 3 in 3 events after that with one win, I think.

Doesn't it seem funny to anybody else that Meucci has touted their low deflection cues for years (no argument from me) while their cues are very flexible, and then Predator comes out with a very stiff shaft and also claims to be low deflection (again no argument).

I don't think there's any real difference in any of these in the hands of a great player, and focusing on the shaft instead of your stroke can hold back your progress immensely.

unknownpro

 

[drivermaker]

You see, one of my biggest hobbies is to try out different cues and shafts. I know, may be I should get a life rather than get a lesson.

Anyway, I have been very frustrated because I am missing the easiest shots especially with the Z shaft!

But I do not want to dismiss a product because it is not working for me. There are lots of reasons why it is not working and most of the reasons are unrelated to the shaft itself. I am just trying to find out if it is really true that the cue ball will curve back sooner and if it is, why? If not, then why do I always have to aim thicker for ouside english on long shots?
Richard

I can understand your hobby...I used to do the same thing with women. Now THAT was fun!

You're experiencing the same thing of missing shots that I and many of us have when switching to a Predator. Like Fred Agnir, after a year of beating my head against a wall and missing too many shots, I just quit trying to figure it out. I still don't know the answer and I don't really give a damn.
Hopefully you give up a lot sooner...it's not worth the effort. For some, it works. For others, they're a total disaster.

 

[Fred Agnir]

I have tried the 314 and sometimes it seemed to me that I had to aim at the wrong side in order to make the ball

You're not dreaming. This is because there's less squirt, and therefore your aim will have to be different.

What I am trying to say is that when using outside English on a long shot, I had to sometimes aim fuller rather than thinner to make the ball. Someone told me it is because with the 314, the cue ball will curve back faster. I cannot really understand how that could be possible.

Again, less squirt. Normally, the cueball on your shot with right-hand english will squirt to the left, then swerve to the right. With less squirt of the 314, swerve will dominate. In effect, it curves to the right of your aim line faster.

I am also having problem when I am hitting the ball soft with lots of english. It seems again I have to adjust by hitting the opposite side of the ball. I think it is because of the throwing effect. Am I right or wrong?
Is there something I should know that I don't about the 314?

Same answer. It's the swerve. It was the toughest part of getting used to a 314 for me (slow with english), and the reason I gave up on the experiment after a year and a half.

Fred

 

[TATE]

That's what I usually try. The last time I tried out a student's cue -- to which he was not particularly attached, fortunately -- I had to aim half a ball on the wrong side of the object ball to cut it in with max side spin. Yes, a ball and a half of squirt in six diamonds.

Another procedure that gives you the stick's pivot point is in the RSB FAQ at
http://www.sfbilliards.com/faq.html -- search for the word squirt or go to item 7.

Bob,

Was this a kid who was going to law school up there? Was it a Dale Perry sneaky pete?

Chris

 

[X Breaker]

You're not dreaming. This is because there's less squirt, and therefore your aim will have to be different.

Again, less squirt. Normally, the cueball on your shot with right-hand english will squirt to the left, then swerve to the right. With less squirt of the 314, swerve will dominate. In effect, it curves to the right of your aim line faster.




Same answer. It's the swerve. It was the toughest part of getting used to a 314 for me (slow with english), and the reason I gave up on the experiment after a year and a half.

Fred

Fred, thank you very much for your explaination.

Drivermaker, thank you for your suggestions. I think I will take your advice. Having said that, I never really know what I may do later .

The balance of the Predator is also a bit different. It feels lighter. I do not know why a lot of people say it is a stiffer shaft, it feels quite soft to me actually.

Anyway, I will go read some of the old posts about this topic. Thank you so much once again.

Richard

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bob,

Was this a kid who was going to law school up there? Was it a Dale Perry sneaky pete?

Chris

No, this was a middle-aged geezer who had a bunch of cues from when he gave up playing 20 years ago. All of them squirted to North Dakota. Amazingly, his favorite game had been 3-cushion.

 

[Hal]

I shoot this shot a lot. I've shot it with Espiritus, Predators, Meuccis, Schons, Helmstetters, Mcdermotts, Hueblers, Players, Joss, and others. It's definitely easier with a 314 shaft. Just my opinion.

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[Rod]

You're not dreaming. This is because there's less squirt, and therefore your aim will have to be different.

Again, less squirt. Normally, the cueball on your shot with right-hand english will squirt to the left, then swerve to the right. With less squirt of the 314, swerve will dominate. In effect, it curves to the right of your aim line faster.




Same answer. It's the swerve. It was the toughest part of getting used to a 314 for me (slow with english), and the reason I gave up on the experiment after a year and a half.

Fred

This is all standard fare with any cue, well, except aiming at the wrong side of the ball. I thing unknowpro said it best.

(I don't think there's any real difference in any of these in the hands of a great player, and focusing on the shaft instead of your stroke can hold back your progress immensely.)

I would differ from that a tad and say, you don't have to be a great player. Strong, YES, great, NO. And yes i have played several hours with a Pred, no big deal.

Rod

 

[scottycoyote]

i dont think the low deflection shafts have anything to do with stiff or not.........it think it has to do with the mass at the end of the shaft......the ferrule and shaft of the predator are lighter at the end, least that seems to be what i remember