How do you win from here? - Stripes

iba7467

iba7467

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

CueTable Help



This game became very defensive with intentional fouls from both players. The progression of the tables shows how I was able to win. Please note the pockets were too tight to allow my opponents ball to go in off of mine, which would give me a shot on the 8, which is why I did what I did in the later table.

How would you play it differently? Would you go for the kick or masse?
 
iba7467 said:

CueTable Help



This game became very defensive with intentional fouls from both players. The progression of the tables shows how I was able to win. Please note the pockets were too tight to allow my opponents ball to go in off of mine, which would give me a shot on the 8, which is why I did what I did in the later table.

How would you play it differently? Would you go for the kick or masse?
Click to expand...

You're kinda screwed here no matter what you do. The location of the 6-ball is going to make it very difficult to attain a shot on the 8-ball assuming you make the 11. You can try tying things up but since your opponent has a ton of options, you're screwed going that way, too.

I would probably kick three rails and I'd kick VERY hard and pray I get an outcome like below:

CueTable Help

 
I'm not quite understanding your progression.

Let me see if I get this right...

Page #1 - Table layout with you shooting
Page #2 - Your shot
Page #3 - His shot with BIH
Page #4 - Your shot
Page #5 - His shot with BIH??????
Page #6 - Your shot with BIH?????
Page #7 - His shot with BIH??????

I totally don't understand the shot on Page #5, since I'm assuming it was his shot with ball in hand. Where is my misunderstanding?
 
Your opponent screwed the pooch. After your first foul, he should have comboed/caromed (whichever he likes) to make a good hit and sink the 11, breaking out the 3-5 in the process, and playing easy position to hook you behind the 6. Your kick at the 8 would be an inevitable sell-out, and if you tried tying his balls back up, he could still break them and play safe behind the 6. You won because you were playing someone with very poor strategy.

What I would have done in this situation (your first diagram) is move the 6-ball to the right end rail. This takes away the automatic safety valve for your opponent to be able to pocket the 11 with impunity. Then when he takes ball in hand and safes you back (since you say the 3 won't go, he has no run-out, so he'll play safe), then you can tie his balls up and wait for him to make a mistake. As diagrammed here, though, unless you move the 6 ball, he shouldn't ever have to give you a chance to win this rack.

-Andrew
 
Shot progression

Table 1 - how opponent left me
Table 2 - my shot
Table 3 - his BIH, plays D
Table 4 - I intentional foul
Table 5 - I kick 8 so if he makes my ball I can shoot it
more defensive shots by him, I hand him BIH
Table 6 - I reposition 8 ball so I can make it from anywhere
I intentionally foul about 4 more times to move his other ball above mine
Table 7 - I double kiss his ball out so that he is forced to come with a shot
 
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jsp said:
I'm not quite understanding your progression.

Let me see if I get this right...

Page #1 - Table layout with you shooting
Page #2 - Your shot
Page #3 - His shot with BIH
Page #4 - Your shot
Page #5 - His shot with BIH??????
Page #6 - Your shot with BIH?????
Page #7 - His shot with BIH??????

I totally don't understand the shot on Page #5, since I'm assuming it was his shot with ball in hand. Where is my misunderstanding?
Click to expand...

Wow, agreed. I didn't realize this was a multi-page diagram. Who has the first shot and which shot are we analyzing. Unfortunately, I see a number of mistakes here in strategy.
 
IBA, you should really just post the final scenario. By posting the entire sequence, we're forced to consider every decision that was made and there are just so many opportunities to win that were passed-up. Yes, he didn't leave you much in any scenario but he shouldn't have left you anything at all. I mean, you're playing someone who is not very good and unwilling to creatively solve his situation so you're trying to make things more confusing for him. Had you been playing against a very good 8-ball player, you would have been forced to be more aggressive from the onset.
 
Nothing is too pretty here....I might even take a flyer and try and bank the 8 on the 11 with the speed to keep the 8 hung up in the pocket after making the 11. Yeah its a long-shot, but like I said nothing else looks too pretty. JMO.

Southpaw
 
Jude, all you have to do is hit the object ball, the spin counters and spins up table, you really dont hit this shot as hard as youd think... If you curved the ball to much and hit the object ball full youd scratch, so it is a lil tricky, keep in mind the thread was entittled TO WIN, I also like your kick, the only problem and my reasoning is, I dont want to contact the trouble balls my opponet has, even If I miss, Id rather give ball in hand trying to win rather than just intentional fouling..
 
Southpaw said:
Nothing is too pretty here....I might even take a flyer and try and bank the 8 on the 11 with the speed to keep the 8 hung up in the pocket after making the 11. Yeah its a long-shot, but like I said nothing else looks too pretty. JMO.

Southpaw
Click to expand...

Interesting option. Then I worry he might have locked safe before I could shoot the 8 and he be out.

Yes, this was during APA tournament playing a fair 4. I felt like I had to play the first safe after which he shot the six and then played safe. I felt like I had control of the game from there, but had to actually play 15-20 more innings before I could get the W. Only worry was a stalemate, but after I learned we couldn't stalemate as long as I made a shot (foul or not) I worked his ball to above mine to double kiss it out.
 
iba7467 said:
Interesting option. Then I worry he might have locked safe before I could shoot the 8 and he be out.

Yes, this was during APA tournament playing a fair 4. I felt like I had to play the first safe after which he shot the six and then played safe. I felt like I had control of the game from there, but had to actually play 15-20 more innings before I could get the W. Only worry was a stalemate, but after I learned we couldn't stalemate as long as I made a shot (foul or not) I worked his ball to above mine to double kiss it out.
Click to expand...

And even if you just get the 8 close to the 11, then you make his runout alot tougher.

Southpaw
 
SPINDOKTOR said:
Jude, all you have to do is hit the object ball, the spin counters and spins up table, you really dont hit this shot as hard as youd think... If you curved the ball to much and hit the object ball full youd scratch, so it is a lil tricky, keep in mind the thread was entittled TO WIN, I also like your kick, the only problem and my reasoning is, I dont want to contact the trouble balls my opponet has, even If I miss, Id rather give ball in hand trying to win rather than just intentional fouling..
Click to expand...


No, I understand what you mean. I just don't think you're going to get off that rail much, that's all. I mean, all is low probability. Stripes are supposed to lose here.
 
Lil joe villapondo (sp?) has a dvd out called "only kicks". In it he shows a kicking system that uses a clock system. As I recall this specific kick is in that dvd. The shot is shooting straight at the middle diamond from the cueball near the opposite middle diamond (which it is) and hitting like 2 oclock on the cueball. with just a bit a practice this kick is fairly easy. From the position though you will have to hit it with a bit of speed so as to hopefully get a shot. Might need closer to 2:30 on the cueball since the speed will kill the english some and your looking to go rail first to get a shot on the 8.
 
I think his option on table three should have been a bit more agressive by playing a slow/easy carom off the 3 and pocket the 11 leaving you hooked behind the 6.
 
PROG8R said:
I think his option on table three should have been a bit more agressive by playing a slow/easy carom off the 3 and pocket the 11 leaving you hooked behind the 6.
Click to expand...

This is what I was saying. If I had been his opponent, he wouldn't have been able to capitalize off leaving the 11 ball there, because I would have pocketed it for him while simultaneously playing safe.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
This is what I was saying. If I had been his opponent, he wouldn't have been able to capitalize off leaving the 11 ball there, because I would have pocketed it for him while simultaneously playing safe.

-Andrew
Click to expand...
GREAT MINDS.... Kind of. :)
 
uwate said:
Lil joe villapondo (sp?) has a dvd out called "only kicks". In it he shows a kicking system that uses a clock system. As I recall this specific kick is in that dvd. The shot is shooting straight at the middle diamond from the cueball near the opposite middle diamond (which it is) and hitting like 2 oclock on the cueball. with just a bit a practice this kick is fairly easy. From the position though you will have to hit it with a bit of speed so as to hopefully get a shot. Might need closer to 2:30 on the cueball since the speed will kill the english some and your looking to go rail first to get a shot on the 8.
Click to expand...


If anything you will likely shoot the 8 in the side, from this shot. you do not hit the stripe FULL. if you did you would absolutely have to hammer the ball. your goal is to hit less than a half ball on the Stripe, this allows maximum spin off the rail.. you guys are going to make me shoot this huh? :rolleyes: CHOO CHOO your tube here I come



SPINDOKTOR
 
iba7467 said:

CueTable Help



This game became very defensive with intentional fouls from both players. The progression of the tables shows how I was able to win. Please note the pockets were too tight to allow my opponents ball to go in off of mine, which would give me a shot on the 8, which is why I did what I did in the later table.

How would you play it differently? Would you go for the kick or masse?
Click to expand...

You'll have to go for the win right away against a good player, for you are about to be tortured. The cross table masse is, in my opinion, a pipe dream, and I'm excellent at masse shots. You'll follow in the eleven at least 75% and even when you don't, your cue ball isn't going far after hitting the eleven. The six ball is the real problem here, for if you could kick the eleven in long one rail, you would surely get something on the eight, as the angle of entry is a good one and you'd have some speed left when the cue ball got to the eleven. Because of that six ball, you'll have to be very innovative to produce that same angle and speed. The way I would do it is to double the long rail with a firm stroke and reverse (right) english. It would work something like this:

CueTable Help



This is near certain to give you something on the eight if executed.
 
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