How does AZB 'cue' a cue ball?

[ENGLISH!]

English is the language that most AZers try to use in their posts.
----
Seriously, I make an effort to use as little English (sidespin) as I need. A fella named "Willie" taught me this in 1965.
I use Buddy's "clock system" and when I do use sidespin, 95% of the time it's a tip or less.

When I teach I demand that students develop a consistent center ball hit (and understand the cue ball control with it) before I introduce them to spin. I believe strongly in learning pool skills in the proper order.

Mr. Don,

From your post & reference to Mr. Halls 'clock system' am I correct that when you say 'english' you are referring only to 3:00 & 9:00 as 'english'?

When I say 'english', before AZB, I would have been referring to anything but center ball, 1:15 & 6:35 are 'english' to me.

Thanks for the reply,

 

[ENGLISH!]

I use English/Spin on shots when it is necessary to play position. I don't believe every shot requires side-spin. The majority of shots in my games do not require side spin because, position can be accomplished with follow stun and draw n many cases.

'Many' cases by definintion could be anything more then several & well less than 50%. However I understand what you mean, but when I see the natural position of follow, stun, & draw I almost always add a bit of 'english' in order to enhance it to get a bit better positon to set up the next positon shot requirement.

Thanks for the reply,

 

[bbb]

...............

 

[CreeDo]

I use english like pretty much any other player alive... I don't know anyone who sticks the vertical axis all the time or even most of the time.

I know you didn't ask but, a little editorial...

You can avoid it, and it may increase the chances of making some shots, but I don't subscribe to the idea that avoiding it is the 'right' way to play. Getting a certain position without it is impossible in some cases. In other cases where both sidespin or vertical axis can get the job done... the vertical axis is often trickier to pull off, because you need the cue ball to hit somewhere between centerball stun and follow or centerball and draw.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I use english like pretty much any other player alive... I don't know anyone who sticks the vertical axis all the time or even most of the time.

I know you didn't ask but, a little editorial...

You can avoid it, and it may increase the chances of making some shots, but I don't subscribe to the idea that avoiding it is the 'right' way to play. Getting a certain position without it is impossible in some cases. In other cases where both sidespin or vertical axis can get the job done... the vertical axis is often trickier to pull off, because you need the cue ball to hit somewhere between centerball stun and follow or centerball and draw.

I've run plenty of racks just staying on the vertical axis. It's pretty easy as long as you get the correct angles.

 

[Dunnn51]

well said Donnie

English is the language that most AZers try to use in their posts.
----
Seriously, I make an effort to use as little English (sidespin) as I need. A fella named "Willie" taught me this in 1965.
I use Buddy's "clock system" and when I do use sidespin, 95% of the time it's a tip or less.

When I teach I demand that students develop a consistent center ball hit (and understand the cue ball control with it) before I introduce them to spin. I believe strongly in learning pool skills in the proper order.

I'm by no means an instructor, But I do teach noobs the fundies. When the season started for league onna new team, I hadda S/L3 tell me they missed an easy shot b/c they had the wrong "english." From there , all the noobs got the term dropped from their vocab.(Till later).

I also agree with using English as little as possible. Sometimes you need to use it for shape on rotation games. Also comes in handy for cross-table banks. There are other times too, but the KISS principle should be invoked when applying English too much.

hmmmmm :scratchhead: ENGLISH askin' about English, go figure..... :grin:

 

[bdorman]

Center ball only: 20%
Vertical (follow or draw): 50%
English for CIT: 20%
English for position: 10%

I'm using a little more english now to reduce CIT on cut shots but the jury is still out whether or not I'll continue doing so (alternative is to just change my aim a tad). Occasionally I'll use it with a rail-first shot or kick.

I only use english for position when absolutely necessary...and even then only when it's a short CB-OB distance.

 

[CreeDo]

I've run plenty of racks just staying on the vertical axis. It's pretty easy as long as you get the correct angles.

I'm open the idea I guess, I just dunno anyone who did that. It's almost like running into a golfer who hit every single drive with the same club.

I guess if you start out doing it and stick to it for years, it can become second nature and you can play at a high level.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I use english like pretty much any other player alive... I don't know anyone who sticks the vertical axis all the time or even most of the time.

I know you didn't ask but, a little editorial...

You can avoid it, and it may increase the chances of making some shots, but I don't subscribe to the idea that avoiding it is the 'right' way to play. Getting a certain position without it is impossible in some cases. In other cases where both sidespin or vertical axis can get the job done... the vertical axis is often trickier to pull off, because you need the cue ball to hit somewhere between centerball stun and follow or centerball and draw.

I hear you & totally understand.

Thanks for the reply & insight,

 

[BeiberLvr]

I guess if you start out doing it and stick to it for years, it can become second nature and you can play at a high level.

Good point. I have been playing that way for awhile now. I used to spend a lot of time just running racks of 15 ball (no order) using no english.

I still practice my english though, quite a bit. It definitely comes in handy on certain shots, and when I get out of line.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Mr. Don,

From your post & reference to Mr. Halls 'clock system' am I correct that when you say 'english' you are referring only to 3:00 & 9:00 as 'english'?

When I say 'english', before AZB, I would have been referring to anything but center ball, 1:15 & 6:35 are 'english' to me.

Thanks for the reply,[quote)

Buddy doesn't limit his system to 3 and 9 o'clock. He uses every number on the clock face. Every shot uses a clock position, except for perfect center ball.

English is applied with any hit other than on the vertical axis. Center ball is only one spot on the vertical axis.

 

[EasyEJL]

Good point. I have been playing that way for awhile now. I used to spend a lot of time just running racks of 15 ball (no order) using no english.

I still practice my english though, quite a bit. It definitely comes in handy on certain shots, and when I get out of line.

and you mentioning racks of 15 balls is the perfect example to what i'm going to say...

how much English you use depends on the game you play. Its much easier in straight pool or even 8 ball to not use English, its virtually impossible to play 9 or 10 ball well without English for cue ball placement.

 

[Lock N Load]

This is very simple, to be a pool player, not a banger you must be able to us every form of action the cue ball can provide. You must be able to use center ball hits Top - Center - Bottom. You must also be able to use English Right - Left and side spin from either side of the cue ball. If you can not effectively use all of the above accurately and with control you will never be able to play at a level above a C-player.

Hello WarLock 1,
I am glad to see you posting and being OK. I miss seeing you on the AZB forum. I hope all is well with you and the family! Your friend Lock.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[DrClean]

Like others, at least 80% vertical. As I struggle with squirt compensation

 

[ENGLISH!]

Buddy doesn't limit his system to 3 and 9 o'clock. He uses every number on the clock face. Every shot uses a clock position, except for perfect center ball.

English is applied with any hit other than on the vertical axis. Center ball is only one spot on the vertical axis.

Mr. Don,

I agree totally. I just asked a question in another thread & suggested a 'science' clarification 'thread' might be in order. It seems to me that many times english or side spin is referred to it is taken to mean only as spinnning exactly horozontally on the verticle axis. I think this causes confusion in many discussions.

I too have been using every 'clock' positon for 46 years, 4:05 & 30 seconds is a position for english. Naturally I don't think of it those number designations, but I'll certainly hit it there.

Again, thanks for the reply.

Best Regards,

 

[Lock N Load]

Hello English,
I use English a lot. Because it helps with getting shape. And several other reasons.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Like others, at least 80% vertical. As I struggle with squirt compensation

DrClean,

That's neat. Thanks for posting it. And by rule that ball is not pocketed but one that jams with another one very well could be considered pocketed.

Regards,

 

[Pidge]

I use english on nearly every shot. Whether its gearing english, english to throw the OB or to alter the rebound angle from a rail. The only type of shot I tend not to use english on is a dead straight stun. Its worth saying that my primary games are 9 and 10 balls, but even still, when playing 8 ball I still use english more than average I'd say. The only difference is there is not as much need for using english to alter the CBs angle from a rail.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter how often you use english. What matters is when you have to use it you are able to.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I use english on nearly every shot. Whether its gearing english, english to throw the OB or to alter the rebound angle from a rail. The only type of shot I tend not to use english on is a dead straight stun. Its worth saying that my primary games are 9 and 10 balls, but even still, when playing 8 ball I still use english more than average I'd say. The only difference is there is not as much need for using english to alter the CBs angle from a rail.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter how often you use english. What matters is when you have to use it you are able to.[/QUOTE]



Pidge,

That is the bottom line. That is what usualy seperates one level of player from another one.

Thnaks for the reply,

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hi All,

I just wanted to thank everyone that responded.

It seems that most all of the respondants use englih quite regularly in an ongoing every game fashion, as I do. I'm not sure that is really reflective as if I did not use english I am not so sure I would want to readily say so. I'll think a bit about re-wording the question a bit & perhaps do a real poll sometime in the future now that I have been advised on how to do so.

Thanks again,