How does Jayson make this shot?

[pt109]

I have to wonder if the way Jayson applied the right hand English had something to do with his ability to make that shot? (SES : Swipe English Stroke) The new cloth was a plus for sure.

JoeyA

That's why I still use solid maple shafts, Joey....albeit shaved to about 12 mm...
I aim closer to center and let the tip go with the spin....swiping minmizes whitey pushing off
....and you get more spin....most people draw that way...same thing works horizontally.

I've always called it 'brushing' the spin on.

 

[JoeyA]

Does Jayson use a solid maple shaft? I see that he is sponsored by Lucasi?
JoeyA

That's why I still use solid maple shafts, Joey....albeit shaved to about 12 mm...
I aim closer to center and let the tip go with the spin....swiping minmizes whitey pushing off
....and you get more spin....most people draw that way...same thing works horizontally.

I've always called it 'brushing' the spin on.

 

[pt109]

Does Jayson use a solid maple shaft? I see that he is sponsored by Lucasi?
JoeyA

Pretty sure he's a Meucci man...no idea on the shaft.

 

[dr_dave]

Is there a way to measure how much spin can be transferred from the CB to the OB? It doesn't seem to me that anyone could transfer very much spin from one ball to another.

See the spin transfer resource page for demonstrations and calculations of the amount of spin that can be transferred. It is more than many people think ... enough to make some shots possible that would not be possible without spin transfer (see the examples on the resource page).

But maybe it doesn't take very much to help the OB go in.

"Get in" or "helping" english is real but it is difficult to use effectively in actual play. For more info, see the "get-in" or "helping" english resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I have to wonder if the way Jayson applied the right hand English had something to do with his ability to make that shot? (SES : Swipe English Stroke) The new cloth was a plus for sure.

That shot can be made with any stroke type or any shaft type, with appropriate aim. A swoop or swipe stroke is no more effective at applying english than any other stroke type with equivalent aim. For more info, see the swoop/swipe stroke resource page.

Regards,
Dave

 

[realkingcobra]

The softer that shot is made, the more you increase the chances of rattling the ball out of the pocket...and it can still be made on broke in cloth. The 3 things that make that shot possible are, 1 angle of the object ball grazing the contact cushion, 2 the amount of outside spin applied to the cue ball, and 3 the speed of the shot to neutralize the friction of the grazing cushion wanting to reverse the spin of the object ball.

PS, and well made pockets, not 4" circus pockets!

 

[hang-the-9]

At 29:48 he hits the 3rd diamond & the 2 ball still goes? How is that possible? Does the right spin on the cueball put left spin on the 2 ball & help it go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fERH4-KxPXA

Very shallow angle, crazy good shot, he overcuts it to create more angle and makes the shot with spin to get shape on the next ball.

BTW, you can easily create a link to the right time, when you share the video there is a check box that lets you save it at the time you are in. Don't know why very few people do that, it's a lot easier than listing the time and having people scroll to it.

 

[EL'nino]

Very shallow angle, crazy good shot, he overcuts it to create more angle and makes the shot with spin to get shape on the next ball.

BTW, you can easily create a link to the right time, when you share the video there is a check box that lets you save it at the time you are in. Don't know why very few people do that, it's a lot easier than listing the time and having people scroll to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fERH4-KxPXA&t=1788s I think I got it

 

[JoeyA]

Dave,
You suggest that "Old Timers", players like Tom Ross, effectively use the swoop stroke but Jayson is a spring chicken. I'm just wondering how many other SPRING CHICKENS use an effective swoop stroke and whether or not you are missing some of the benefits to a swoop stroke? If young guns like Jayson are using it, can there be some benefit that you haven't discovered?

JoeyA

That shot can be made with any stroke type or any shaft type, with appropriate aim. A swoop or swipe stroke is no more effective at applying english than any other stroke type with equivalent aim. For more info, see the swoop/swipe stroke resource page.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

That shot can be made with any stroke type or any shaft type, with appropriate aim. A swoop or swipe stroke is no more effective at applying english than any other stroke type with equivalent aim. For more info, see the swoop/swipe stroke resource page.

Dave,
You suggest that "Old Timers", players like Tom Ross, effectively use the swoop stroke but Jayson is a spring chicken. I'm just wondering how many other SPRING CHICKENS use an effective swoop stroke and whether or not you are missing some of the benefits to a swoop stroke? If young guns like Jayson are using it, can there be some benefit that you haven't discovered?

I think the swoop/swipe stroke is something many people tend to do naturally, but what comes naturally isn't always the best approach. For example, significant elbow drop, wrist flick, grip tightening during the stoke, and "body english" also come naturally to some good players, but that doesn't suggest these approaches offer inherent advantages. I have to admit that I swope/swipe on occasion (and drop my elbow more than I should on certain shots, and lift my head early, and fail to have my vision center perfectly aligned, and tighten my grip a little on some shots) by accident when I am being sloppy or lazy with my technique, because these things come naturally to me also (i.e., I do them if I haven't practiced properly in a while, or if I am careless). Regardless, anybody can master any technique (or lack of technique) with enough practice. But to me, the real question is whether the swoop/swipe stroke provides useful advantages not achievable with a potentially more-reliable and more-consistent straight stroke. After much analysis, experimentation and observation over many years, I am totally convinced the answer is no. I am also aware that not everybody agrees with me.

As outlined on the resource page, a swoop/swipe stroke can offer advantages to some people, and those people can use a swoop/swipe stroke effectively, especially if it comes naturally to them; however, it is no more effective than a straight stroke, which will be much more accurate and consistent for most people (with the same amount of practice). I think most people (even many swoopers) who carefully read the entire swoop/swipe stroke resource page and try the experiment described and demonstrated will agree with me. Tom Ross agreed with me after we spent lots of time on this question. Did that make him stop using his swoop/swipe stroke? No, because that is what he had practiced for 30 years, and he was good at it. However, he or I would certainly not recommend it to a student who hadn't already spent many years mastering it.

Regards,
Dave