I recently purchased a predator ikon. It has a 314^2 and I'm really not very impressed with the feel and hit of it. I have another cue with an OB1 and I love the feel and hit of it. My question is how much of feel and hit is due to the shaft and butt of the cue? If I put an OB1 on the ikon do you think I would like it better?
How does shaft affect hit and feel?
- Thread starter xRASHx
- Start date
I would ask what the joint type was on the old cue you liked more. Shaft has a decent amount to do with feel but joint size and type matters more. Also, the tip has a lot to do with the feel and I'm assuming the 314-2 has a different tip than what you are used to.
If you changed joint pin size, joint connection type (wood to wood, stainless, ivory, etc), and the tip ... all at the same time ... you can't blame the shaft alone.
If you changed joint pin size, joint connection type (wood to wood, stainless, ivory, etc), and the tip ... all at the same time ... you can't blame the shaft alone.
I think it all starts out at the tip and then goes to the Butt in that order. The tip is the most important part of the feel, then the shaft, then the joint and then whatever butt you are using is the least important.
The tip, shaft, joint and butt must work together to send a message to your hand and finally to your brain when you strike a cue ball. Its a vibration and force type of feel. Your grip on the cue must allow you to feel those vibrations and force.
Better players can feel the cue ball so well that they can feel putting the cue ball any where they want. When you get to this point the whole game changes and you start having a lot of fun.
The new shaft you have is a good shaft. I think I would start experimenting with a different tip, one that allows for the greatest feel. Try a Kamui SS black and see if that works for you.
Have fun
John - St. Louis
Better players can feel the cue ball so well that they can feel putting the cue ball any where they want. When you get to this point the whole game changes and you start having a lot of fun.
The new shaft you have is a good shaft. I think I would start experimenting with a different tip, one that allows for the greatest feel. Try a Kamui SS black and see if that works for you.
Have fun
John - St. Louis
TheThaiger
Banned
How does the ikon move the ball though? I sometimes play with a friend's Blak, which is essentially the same cue, I believe, and that moves the ball tremendously easily - it is effortless. I have the same tip and shaft, but I find it much more difficult to move the ball with my Pech. My point here is, I would rather sacrifice feel and hit in order to do full length draw shots with a mere flick of the wrist.
TheThaiger
Banned
Good point about the tip. If it was a new shaft it probably came with an Everest, which are the single worst tips ever invented IMO. Change the tip and change the cue - go for a kamui or moori, or a triangle if money's an issue. All great tips.
The type of ferrule is also very influential
I put a 314-2 on my cue a month ago........
Hi there,
I think the shaft has alot to do with everything as far as the feel and hit. The tip is huge also.
I took my 314-2 and had it turned down a little. About a millimeter. Now it does have a little flex and squirt but it is pretty small.
I had a Everest tip on it and then a wizard. I found that a Kamui tan soft was a perfect fit for me.
I love the way it plays. It might be the difference in the tips of it could be the shaft itself. I'm sure both shafts play a little different.
The cue fix guys tell me even the predators all play a little different even though they are so close.
Make sure you have the same tips.
Good luck geno.............
Hi there,
I think the shaft has alot to do with everything as far as the feel and hit. The tip is huge also.
I took my 314-2 and had it turned down a little. About a millimeter. Now it does have a little flex and squirt but it is pretty small.
I had a Everest tip on it and then a wizard. I found that a Kamui tan soft was a perfect fit for me.
I love the way it plays. It might be the difference in the tips of it could be the shaft itself. I'm sure both shafts play a little different.
The cue fix guys tell me even the predators all play a little different even though they are so close.
Make sure you have the same tips.
Good luck geno.............
The shaft is half of the cue, so naturally it makes up for half of the hit & feel. The butt is the other half. I think of it as I would music. The butt accounts for the bass tones up to lower mid range tones. The shaft accounts for mid range tones all the way through the treble tones. You think that mid range through treble is all that really matters until you all of the sudden have distorted bass or it's gone altogether. Then it sounds funky & wrong. You need balance to get the correct sound. Same with cues, you need balance to get correct feel & playability.
A cue maker friend of mine broke it down simpler than I could. He said to screw a shaft on to a piece of soft rubber & try to play with it. Then screw it on to a piece of granite & try to play with it. Same shaft, totally different playability and feel. That's extreme ends of the spectrum but shows that the butt actually does matter quite a bit. Each butt is different and obviously that difference can be felt as well as difference in playability noticed. Ignoring & discounting that simple fact causes a lot of players to never find the best cue for them and prevents a lot of builders from ever building a really great cue. The shaft is only half of the cue.
A cue maker friend of mine broke it down simpler than I could. He said to screw a shaft on to a piece of soft rubber & try to play with it. Then screw it on to a piece of granite & try to play with it. Same shaft, totally different playability and feel. That's extreme ends of the spectrum but shows that the butt actually does matter quite a bit. Each butt is different and obviously that difference can be felt as well as difference in playability noticed. Ignoring & discounting that simple fact causes a lot of players to never find the best cue for them and prevents a lot of builders from ever building a really great cue. The shaft is only half of the cue.
Eric Wynne
Banned
Every piece of wood is different ... The shaft is the business end of the cue , it's density , grain pattern , and taper , all warrant how the cue ball comes off the tip when the ball is struck . The quicker the ball gets off the tip , less deflection - more accurate , the more give or flex in the shaft , the longer it takes for the cue ball to get off the tip , which has more effect on it resulting more deflection , especially the further from center ball you hit . It's still personal preference , some people like hard tips , some soft . Long ferrule , short ferrule ... Old seasoned wood is the most stable and solid , which when done right " plays jam up " ... Tight grain means slow growth and usually makes a great playin' shaft , but I've seen 7 - 8 count rings make just as good of hit and weigh as dense as any ... One of the old masters liked only low ring count white wood for shafts . Everyone thinks his cues are from heaven . They are all just pieces of wood made for playin' a great game . It don't matter if you're not a champion , you're still a " PLAYA " , and thats what its all about . Shoot all the balls in and chances are you'll get paid ....
Hit and feel aren't lost on me but one of the things that I try to overcome is the subjective thinking about hit, feel, and looks, and try to measure the cue's performance rather than hit and feel.
You've already been given lots of good advice. I even have an OB break shaft on my Predator BK II. While I play with an OB Classic Pro right now, I think you have to be careful about getting rid of shafts because they don't play or feel or hit like you think they should. Sometimes it takes a little time to get used to the idiosycracies of a cue.
Practice with both cues and see which cue PERFORMS the best.
JoeyA
I agree with JoeyA,
I like the hit of a 13mm on my cue vs just a tad smaller shaft but I play better One Pocket with a 12.75 shaft. The hit is different remarkably but the play for me is better in that game but I make myself play with the 13mm so I dont get my squirt and deflection messed up for 9ball and all is well. Hit just isnt everything--performance.
336Robin :thumbup:
Robin Kelly
http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
AM i NUTS ? or WHAT WITH THESE SHAFTS /
I'm a very experienced competition and dedicated pocket billiard player. Frequently I practice somewhat mundane, easy shots, primarily to work on complex position situations. My 2 primary playing shafts are a Tiger X with pro taper and a stock Lucasi standard taper. Sniper 12.75 MM med tip on Tiger. 13 mm Sniper med on the standard. I play with the Tiger x shaft a vast majority of the time in competition, however I do seem to get more english with the standard shaft on different cloths, so it gets some use. One day I was shooting many simple shots repetitively while switching between cues working on position alternatives. Lo and behold - I was occasionally missing shots - only with the standard taper shaft ! Huh? These were elementary no brainers. I couldn't figure it out ! Difference in shaft tapers? or WHAT ? Psyched out ? Not ME ! Any Ideas? or is it just to much difference, that disturbs my natural stroke? No difference in weights.
I'm a very experienced competition and dedicated pocket billiard player. Frequently I practice somewhat mundane, easy shots, primarily to work on complex position situations. My 2 primary playing shafts are a Tiger X with pro taper and a stock Lucasi standard taper. Sniper 12.75 MM med tip on Tiger. 13 mm Sniper med on the standard. I play with the Tiger x shaft a vast majority of the time in competition, however I do seem to get more english with the standard shaft on different cloths, so it gets some use. One day I was shooting many simple shots repetitively while switching between cues working on position alternatives. Lo and behold - I was occasionally missing shots - only with the standard taper shaft ! Huh? These were elementary no brainers. I couldn't figure it out ! Difference in shaft tapers? or WHAT ? Psyched out ? Not ME ! Any Ideas? or is it just to much difference, that disturbs my natural stroke? No difference in weights.