How does Shane get the white in the air everytime??

[Bandanna Joe]

Great analysis Mosconiac! Thanks for the freeze frames.

I once saw a video where Archer talks about fooling himself by hitting slightly high on the break. He implied that he is actually hitting just below center but aiming a tip high. Maybe he doesn't realize that he is actually hitting it high like Shane.

Frame five definitely resembles the Captain Hook influence.

 

[mosconiac]

I once saw a video where Archer talks about fooling himself by hitting slightly high on the break. He implied that he is actually hitting just below center but aiming a tip high. Maybe he doesn't realize that he is actually hitting it high like Shane.

It's interesting that we still hear people say you have to draw the rock to get it to settle in the middle of the table & squat. It's quite obvious that they *think* they are hitting it low, but actually hitting *at least slightly* above center.

If the CB had backspin, it would continue moving toward them, not hook forward to a stop. This is especially true of people professing side rail breaks. They aim very low (which requires a LOT of elevation), but follow thru near center.

You'll notice on my vids (the dark ones in freeze frame above), SVB is addrenssing the CB very low (lower than he does on a 9'). This is from his hand being close to the bartable's rail and therefore forcing a more elevated cue on that kind of table.

 

[AuntyDan]

If the cue ball strikes the lead ball, on the up part of the arc, that can be cause for concern (the cue ball caroms off the lead ball & becomes airborne).

Why is this bad? Look at the cover of your own book Charley, every Pro pictured there has the cue ball in the air.

 

[ceebee]

Hey there Aunty Dan, the next sentence gives you the reasoning behind the concern & how to avoid "cue ball launch". By adding just a scosch to the hit or taking some heat off the hit, you can time the cue ball to act correctly & not become a problem. If you look in my book, on page 45, you'll see what I mean.

Good Luck...

 

[mullyman]

Why is this bad? Look at the cover of your own book Charley, every Pro pictured there has the cue ball in the air.

The cueball is going to go airborne on the break, that's a given. The reason Shanes break jumps so high in the air is that it is either hitting an upper area of the head ball and bouncing straight up or it's hitting just before the head ball, hitting the head ball and ricocheting straight up into the air. I'm going to go with the latter. I still don't think that it's something that people should try to emulate. There are other ways to squat the rock without sending it into the atmosphere and risking it flying off the table and hurting someone.
MULLY
it works for him, good, more power to him

 

[Patrick Johnson]

ceebee:
If the cue ball strikes the lead ball, on the up part of the arc, that can be cause for concern (the cue ball caroms off the lead ball & becomes airborne).

Aunty Dan:
Why is this bad? Look at the cover of your own book Charley, every Pro pictured there has the cue ball in the air.

It's probably not too bad when it only goes a foot or less in the air, but even then some power is being wasted lifting the CB that could be put to better use moving object balls.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

How does Shane get the white in the air everytime??

i can't seem to get how he does it so consistently...and on top of that w/ such good control. anyone got a clue??

I don't think it's a good thing - wastes too much power and probably magnifies the amount of power lost for a slightly offcenter hit on the head ball. It could be fixed by increasing/decreasing power or lengthening/shortening distance.

As far as Shane's technique is concerned, I don't think it's complicated; just a simple matter of standing up so he can swing his whole arm - lots of hard breakers do that, just not all of them as well as Shane. When I say "simple", of course I mean simple in concept - controlling that standing-up full-arm stroke is not simple at all.

pj
chgo

 

[ironman]

He elevates the butt of his cue slightly, the rest is just years of repetition and trial and error.

Good answer and an old trick. I have known players who could break lights out with this one.

 

[ironman]

i agree with mulley. theres plenty of good breakers out there that ud be better off imatating. Its to unpredictable.

busty and hillbilly come to mind

Hillbilly has as much power as anyone and yet even he has toned it down some in the past year. When he lets it go though, it is incredible.

Annother who had an incredible break in his day was Danny Medina. It scared the hell out of people, but it was so unpredictable. He had incredible power. Once he toned it down and got it under control, he was feared by most and winning a lot of big events.

 

[monski]

I was told once before that the QB is slightly bigger than the rest of the balls. This makes the middle of the QB slightly higher than the middle of the OB. So imo there is a tendency for the QB to go airborne when it hits the OB at solid a fast gliding speed (with stun or a slight forward spin) specially if there is strong resistance from from the OB... Of course the OB has strongest resistance on the break since its stacked up against other balls firmly.

 

[AuntyDan]

I don't think it's a good thing - wastes too much power and probably magnifies the amount of power lost for a slightly offcenter hit on the head ball. It could be fixed by increasing/decreasing power or lengthening/shortening distance.
chgo

So why most Pros do it? Given that most work very hard on their break shot technique surely they would also have fixed it if they considered in wasn't optimal?

 

[T411]

on his break. he almost always puts it in the air but he does it w/ phenomenal control almost every time. i agree it probably aint the best break to try to imitate, but i like that his CB doesn't get kicked around as much as most people right off the snap.

This is the reason why it is a good idea; but its only good if you can do it consistently.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't think it's a good thing - wastes too much power and probably magnifies the amount of power lost for a slightly offcenter hit on the head ball. It could be fixed by increasing/decreasing power or lengthening/shortening distance.

So why most Pros do it? Given that most work very hard on their break shot technique surely they would also have fixed it if they considered in wasn't optimal?

I think it's a likely side effect of breaking as hard as possible. Maybe they don't know how to fix it. Maybe they think it's optimal for the same reason you do. Maybe you're right. I just don't think so.

Here's what I know:

It wastes power, something they're clearly trying to maximize.

The idea that it avoids collisions, especially that it avoids enough bad outcomes from collisions to matter more than the loss of power (and CB control), is highly speculative.

He scratched in one of those videos.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

i like that his CB doesn't get kicked around as much as most people right off the snap.

Who says it doesn't?

pj
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[Klopek]

0000000000

 

[macneilb]

I think it's a likely side effect of breaking as hard as possible. Maybe they don't know how to fix it. Maybe they think it's optimal for the same reason you do. Maybe you're right. I just don't think so.

chgo

I have to disagree on that one. it doesn't look like shane really breaks as hard as possible, he hits them firm...but he doesn't put everything he has into his break, which IMO equals control. I agree that it is up to opinion if the CB gets kicked around as much on his break as it does on others, but whatever happens, he generally lands it near the center of the table almost every time. watch the shane vs. orcullo match on propoolvideo.com and you'll see how well controlled his break is.

 

[predator]

Well, the cue has got to be elevated slightly, just a few degrees. No one can hit a hard break with 0 degrees elevation. If the cueball leaves the bed of the table by just 1mm after stroking, it will probably jump when it impacts another 9 or 10 balls all tightly racked together. I can't see a way to avoid this effect if you hit really hard. Some energy has got to go to waste. We are not machines and therefore can't be 100% efficient.

But do you think Shane will be concerned by all this stuff? He controls those breaks as well as humanly possible, especially 10ball. I can't see anyone improving on that.

 

[JB Cases]

modern cueballs are not larger than the object balls. Bartables with oversized cueballs are going the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I have to disagree on that one. it doesn't look like shane really breaks as hard as possible, he hits them firm...but he doesn't put everything he has into his break, which IMO equals control.

He doesn't hit them as hard as he possibly could, but he hits them harder than it appears - I think that's what standing up does for him. He gets more power into the rack than most breaks that hop that much, so I'd have to say it's working for him - it must be very near the cloth to be that powerful and only hop that much. But I still think it would be even more effective if the CB didn't hop.

BTW, it looks to me like his CB doesn't hit the cloth on the way to the headball.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... If the cueball leaves the bed of the table by just 1mm after stroking, it will probably jump when it impacts another 9 or 10 balls all tightly racked together. I can't see a way to avoid this effect if you hit really hard.

You can lengthen or shorten your break distance so the CB hits the headball when it's on (or closer to) the cloth.

pj
chgo