How Fractional Aiming Systems Help

dr_dave said:
I personally think CTE, and Pro-One in particular, is better described as a consistent pre-shot routine, and not as an aiming system.
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The longer we talk about it the more I am inclined to agree with you on this point, Dave. As a "system" it has so many holes as to be near useless. At least as a PSR there can be considerable value to many players. And I think, as you point out on your web site, it's where many players find value added (mistakenly attributing any improvement to the aiming system part).

Pool is all about feel. And even with a great PSR, we are not robots with sufficient mechanical precision to consistently execute flawlessly. As so it always all comes back to feel, experience, intuition, and body awareness.

Pool is most definitely science, but it is also very much an art form.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Neil said:
Either you can't read, can't follow simple instructions, or just plain refuse to acknowledge the obvious.
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Or maybe (anything's possible) that applies to you instead.

Either try and learn something from the thousands of posts on the subject, or quite posting your drivel about it.
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Same to you, only more politely.

pj
chgo
 
lfigueroa said:
The longer we talk about it the more I am inclined to agree with you on this point, Dave. As a "system" it has so many holes as to be near useless. At least as a PSR there can be considerable value to many players. And I think, as you point out on your web site, it's were many players find value added (mistakenly attributing any improvement to the aiming system part).

Pool is all about feel. And even with a great PSR, we are not robots with sufficient mechanical precision to consistently execute flawlessly. As so it always all comes back to feel, experience, intuition, and body awareness.

Pool is most definitely science, but it is also very much an art form.

Lou Figueroa
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Ladies and gentleman Lou Figawhatever :thumbup: hes mad and feels humiliated by is own posts so he will do his best again to trash the shit out of the system,dvd and Stan , classy dude! lol he will now jump on any possible negative in this thread lol
 
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Dave:
I personally think CTE, and Pro-One in particular, is better described as a consistent pre-shot routine, and not as an aiming system.
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Lou:
The longer we talk about it the more I am inclined to agree with you on this point, Dave.
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I mostly agree, but I've also gained more appreciation over time for the potential that CTE and other fractional systems have for assisting the aiming process directly. I can think of at least two ways:

1. As I've suggested in this thread, these systems can "narrow the range" of estimation needed for a shot by recognizing that it falls near an easy-to-see system alignment (or between two alignments).

2. As I've suggested in the past (and even today in the "heuristics" thread), these systems can help the shooter "get out of the way" of his subconscious so that it can work more effectively - for instance, by giving confidence or by occupying the mind with other things (like the PSR features).

I don't know which of these might be the greater aid. I suspect they can work in combination, which might give the biggest boost.

pj
chgo
 
JoeyA said:
dr_dave said:
Like PJ, I disagree with this. Every aiming system requires feel because the systems don't totally define a precise set of mechanical steps to arrive at each cut angle exactly. Also, even if a procedure were totally precise and clear, "visual intelligence," perception, and judgement are still involved. We are not precision robots ... we are humans. Perception, experience, intuition, and feel are a big part of everything we do at the table.

I personally think CTE, and Pro-One in particular, is better described as a consistent pre-shot routine, and not as an aiming system. There are definite benefits to using a pre-shot routine like Pro-One. A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine helps somebody learn how to aim. The pre-shot routine doesn't do the aiming for you, but it can help you learn to aim more efficiently and more quickly. It can also help you create accurate and consistent alignment and sighting.

"Aiming" systems like CTE and Pro-One also provide additional benefits to some people, but the systems don't provide the aiming line, the person does this through their perception and judgement (AKA "feel").

I think if we called Pro-One a "pre-shot routine" and not an "aiming system," there would be a lot more agreement in threads like this.
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Just out of curiosity, precisely what feel is involved with Ghost Ball?
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In ghost-ball aiming, "feel" is used to visualize the center of the desired ghost-ball position and to align the cue so it passes through this point (with center-ball alignment). Also, some "feel" is required to judge that your vision center is aligned with the cue and aim point; otherwise, your eyes might lie to you. All "aiming systems" require "feel" like this.

A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine can also help anybody with aiming. This is true whether or not one uses an "aiming system," including all varieties of "ghost-ball aiming" (e.g., regular ghost-ball, contact-point-to-contact point, double the distance, etc.). Lots of "feel" and judgement is required during the pre-shot routine to create body and head alignment, in perceiving the 3D geometry of the shot, and in aligning the bridge hand and cue with the desired shot line.

Regards,
Dave
 
Me:
I mostly agree, but I've also gained more appreciation over time for the potential that CTE and other fractional systems have for assisting the aiming process directly. I can think of at least two ways:

1. As I've suggested in this thread, these systems can "narrow the range" of estimation needed for a shot by recognizing that it falls near an easy-to-see system alignment (or between two alignments).

2. As I've suggested in the past (and even today in the "heuristics" thread), these systems can help the shooter "get out of the way" of his subconscious so that it can work more effectively - for instance, by giving confidence or by occupying the mind with other things (like the PSR features).

I don't know which of these might be the greater aid. I suspect they can work in combination, which might give the biggest boost.
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champ2107:
Best cte post you have ever made that i have seen!!
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Maybe you need your eyes checked. I've been saying the same things for 15 years. I'm not the only one.

pj
chgo
 
Me:
I mostly agree, but I've also gained more appreciation over time for the potential that CTE and other fractional systems have for assisting the aiming process directly. I can think of at least two ways:

1. As I've suggested in this thread, these systems can "narrow the range" of estimation needed for a shot by recognizing that it falls near an easy-to-see system alignment (or between two alignments).

2. As I've suggested in the past (and even today in the "heuristics" thread), these systems can help the shooter "get out of the way" of his subconscious so that it can work more effectively - for instance, by giving confidence or by occupying the mind with other things (like the PSR features).

I don't know which of these might be the greater aid. I suspect they can work in combination, which might give the biggest boost.
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Neil:
Still doesn't explain the FACT the CTE users can now routinely make shots that they routinely missed before.
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It can easily explain that. I can routinely make shots that I routinely missed before - and I aim by feel alone.

Gee, could that possibly be because it works as described???
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There is no description of how it works by those who use it (once you get past the system alignments). There's only the insistence that it does, often (and emotionally) repeated to those, like me, who have agreed with that obvious fact since the beginning.

And not as you WISH it worked??
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You, a system user, have a stake in believing it works the way you want. I don't.

pj
chgo
 
manofthecloth said:
...once the new system is applied, we do not know if they are now making the shot because they are aiming better, or if their stroke is now better.
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Or if they are aiming better because the system trains them to use a preshot routine, or because it helps them use their "feel ability" more effectively, or simply because they've been practicing more, or all of the above.

pj
chgo
 
manofthecloth said:
I think we are actually starting to make some sense of things in the last couple of pages.
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No, you aren't, and those involved very well know it.

It has reverted back to what every previous CTE thread ends up like, the same 5 or 6 players firing away at one another. Instead of the practical discussion that was being held for quite some time, earlier in the thread.

I am not surprised, just saddened that it couldn't continue. But again, this end was a forgone conclusion...

BTW, nice new persona this time around. Used a bit of creativity, at least.
 
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