How important is your grip?

[Egg McDogit]

I am just a beginner, but it sounds like you might be keeping your entire hand closed during your backstroke. Usually people who use the kind of grip you're describing open up their fingers (ring/pinky) a bit on the backstroke...that allows you to have a longer backstroke without breaking your wrist

My backswing was limited though and I think that has to do with how tight I was gripping it. Should I keep practicing with the straight wrist or do what is comfortable? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Justin

 

[JrockJustin]

Yes, you did...lol

I think the grip is the most underrated part of the game. I think its second only to “aim”.

I feel that the proper grip allows you to move the cue straight back and through on a consistent basis without any thought at all. If your grip is not correct, you now must rely on eye hand coordination or manipulation which may be on or off on a given day.

There are many vague descriptions of what is a proper grip. Letter J index finger / thumb and first finger pointing to the ground / grip in the fingers / grip in the palm, slightly in, slightly out etc. etc.

I think the best advice was given by Mark Tadd about 5 months ago…. (experiment )with different grips.

I have been doing some experimenting of my own, and found some interesting relationships with the golf grip.

Golf has a Strong / Neutral / Weak grip. Most current day teachings will tell you that the most consistent grip for normal ball striking is a neutral grip. I have found that pool also has a Strong / Neutral / Weak grip.

I have come up with a way to convert my Neutral Golf Grip right into a Neutral Pool Grip. It is hard to explain it online as I will probably confuse you and you would need to know a proper neutral Golf Grip in the first place, but try this.

Take a strong golf grip with your cue and then slide your thumb to the side (you end up out of position) / Take a weak golf grip with your cue and then slide your thumb to the side (you end up out of position) Take a neutral golf grip with your cue and then slide your thumb to the side (perfect position in my opinion and is very consistent back and through during the stroke) The main difference between the golf grip and pool grip is the thumb position and grip pressure points (last three fingers vs. first two fingers)

The real point of all this is I have found a consistent repeatable grip that puts my hand in (what I call) a “neutral” and consistent position.

Probably the most important thing though is to find a way where you can consistently place your grip without looking at it. Especially as your getting down on the shot… I, because of lack of confidence in my grip was “looking back” at my grip during set up (to see if I had it correct)…This took my eyes off the shot and caused me to mess up my alignment. Now I have a confidence that my grip is correct and have no need to “look back” at it during set up…

Hopefully I have not confused you too much…

Yes, I am now utterly confused...lol...

Except for the last point... CONFIDENCE! That seems like the underlying issue between pros and amateurs... absolute confidence...

Thanks so much for the advice!

 

[JrockJustin]

I am just a beginner, but it sounds like you might be keeping your entire hand closed during your backstroke. Usually people who use the kind of grip you're describing open up their fingers (ring/pinky) a bit on the backstroke...that allows you to have a longer backstroke without breaking your wrist

You are right about that Egg, I realized that after a while and it seemed to work pretty well... thanks for the advice!

 

[Vahe]

Hang your cue on a "hook"

I was taught by Gene Nagy to use my middle finger like a hook and let the cue hang there. This will help keep your wrist straight during the entire stroke.

He said that gripping the cue will cause your wrist to to get involved in the stroke and can lead to trouble.

It does take getting used to mostly to overcome the feeling that the cue will slip out of your hand.

 

[Colin Colenso]

The wrist and power!

There were some mentions regarding the use of the wrist in developing power.

Some of you may be interested in this 2 part article that attempts to describe the importance of the wrist in creating power. Particulary useful for developing a powerful break, but also useful for delivering powerful shots with minimized body movement.

How to Create Power: Part 1
How to Create Power: Part 2

 

[DaveK]

Thanks Dave, I will do my best...

Hey, do you know Todd Pronych up in Saskatoon by any chance?

Sorry, it doesn't ring a bell. Nor are there any Pronychs in the book, perhaps he moved ? If he's a pool player and still in Saskatoon, I may know him by sight ...

Dave

 

[Rod]

Thanks Rod...

When i stand and let my arm hang straight down relaxed, there is still a slight bend in my wrist. Before my hand was out like Danny Basavich's but I learned to relax a bit since then. You are right about the consistency. I will continue with that... thanks again

Your wrist may appear not to be straight, but if you keep it relaxed it will be. For most people if their wrist is flat with the forearm (same plane) the the wrist may actually be cupped in a bit. Naturally hanging the wrist will be out some for most people. That is just the way it hangs naturally. Not like Danny's wrist, you have to work at that one. LOL

Something I've done many times for players in this situation is exaggerate. I have them practice/play with a slightly cupped wrist. (Bent inside) After a while playing this way it feels good/natural just to let it hang straight down. But remember it may not look straight/flat with your arm. It most likely will have a little bend.

Rod

 

[JrockJustin]

Thanks Dave

Sorry, it doesn't ring a bell. Nor are there any Pronychs in the book, perhaps he moved ? If he's a pool player and still in Saskatoon, I may know him by sight ...

Dave

Dave, I believe he is from Prince Albert? I am not sure exactly but I used to tease him him about the name Saskatoon, Saskatchewan because that is where he said he was from originally. Anyways, thanks for the response!

 

[JrockJustin]

Great Reading Colin

There were some mentions regarding the use of the wrist in developing power.

Some of you may be interested in this 2 part article that attempts to describe the importance of the wrist in creating power. Particulary useful for developing a powerful break, but also useful for delivering powerful shots with minimized body movement.

How to Create Power: Part 1
How to Create Power: Part 2

Great Reading Colin and it's makes total sense. I came to Korea originally to study the martial art of Hapkido. I currently study and teach it is as well. It was really difficult for me in the beginning to give up using my strength. Martial arts comes from the gi or our waist. That is where our power is generated. And we were taught from the first day to relax our bodies completely to optomize power and strength. I am trying to apply that to pool but it is quite difficult as you know.

And by the way, you are such a tease! Part 3! Part 3! Please!

Justin

 

[Tommy-D]

> Back when I started playing serious,I used to pay REALLY close attention to the strokes of the guys I saw on TV. Mike Sigel,Buddy,and Rempe,along with Strickland and Varner were the ones I studied most. I did this so much that my own stroke,with no conscious effort,started to emulate them,or at least what I thought was going on. I can still replicate Sigel's stroke at will,although right handed and nowhere near as effective. What I was trying to do was simulate the timing of the actual stroke,without actually "swinging" the cue,I did it by taking a firmer grip and taking the hit stroke with a deliberate hand action,as opposed to a "toss". This served me well for a long time,then my recently departed friend Dennis threw a grenade into the mix. Dennis was a pure-bred 3-C player from Chicago,and had been well schooled in different cueing techniques,particularly the loose wrist and "release",where the cue actually glides thru the hand,then stops when the hand comes to a stop and the "grip" resumes. He asked me why my grip looked so tight,and said he wondered how I had managed to develop any power at all with my hand "choking" off all the spin,due to the firmness of the grip. I explained that it wasn't actually as tight as it looked,that I tried to keep it just firm enough that my wrist could not possibly break early,and cause me to foul the cueball,and the firmness was about like you would normally grip a toothbrush,where you can really feel everything that goes on. He showed me a couple things,and explained them as best he could. About that time,I got a copy of Advanced Cueing Techniques,a tape that used to be part of the Bert Kinister series,and was taught by Don Feeney. Those techniques,what I already knew,plus what Dennis showed me took nearly 3 years to incorporate fully. I now take the stance of using whatever feels natural for the shot at hand,whether it be a forward or rearward cock to the wrist,light index finger grip,whole hand,or whatever it may be for myself to accomplish the desired effect. In other words,you kinda have to know the rules before you can break them. Different grips or delivery techniques can give you results you might not be able to produce with your normal stroke,knowing what these changes do and don't do is paramount to finding a consistent result for a particular shot. For example,I have found it best to take a nice firm grip for shots where the cue ball is frozen to the rail,and I am following the ball,but if I have to go 2 rails or more to get back uptable,I loosen up. Different bridge lengths also have different effects as well. Tommy D.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Great Reading Colin and it's makes total sense. I came to Korea originally to study the martial art of Hapkido. I currently study and teach it is as well. It was really difficult for me in the beginning to give up using my strength. Martial arts comes from the gi or our waist. That is where our power is generated. And we were taught from the first day to relax our bodies completely to optomize power and strength. I am trying to apply that to pool but it is quite difficult as you know.

And by the way, you are such a tease! Part 3! Part 3! Please!

Justin

Hi Justin,
Glad you enjoyed the articles and could relate to them

The best way to get something from it is practice lots of breaks. The important thing to know is that you should be more relaxed and waiting for the muscles to flex back before contracting. You'll occassionally get a feel of something working right, but you can never force it...especially too early.

It is a kind of rythym thyming thing that becomes nature. Just like some kids work out how to throw rocks a long way, just how some people can run fast. It's much less to do with quick twitch fibres than experts thought.

Re: 3rd Part.

I discontinued with Cuezine because it was too much work getting the translations done into Chinese every week and it was mainly for a Chinese audience.

I am developing another site and will collect these articles and write a lot more, hopefully with more and better diagrams and even video tutorials.

I'll let you all know when I get it set up. I hope to catalogue a lot of tutorials from various authors so as to provide a convenient place for people to go to hear the various opinions and compare them.

Colin

 

[DaveK]

Dave, I believe he is from Prince Albert? I am not sure exactly but I used to tease him him about the name Saskatoon, Saskatchewan because that is where he said he was from originally. Anyways, thanks for the response!

I don't understand ... we usually tease people who are from Regina

Dave

 

[JrockJustin]

So funny!

I don't understand ... we usually tease people who are from Regina

Dave

That is so funny you just wrote that... I am with another canadian buddy of mine playing texas hold'em. He just mentioned Regina when I was asking about Saskatoon... I had him repeat it a few times, made another fella laugh and put the lauging fella all in on his flush with my full-boat... lol...

 

[mnShooter]

I was wondering how important your grip is? For me, keeping my wrist straight is difficult. So for the longest time I it has been bent.Some people tell me to change it and some people tell me it's not important, just do whatever is comfortable for you. Yesterday I tried it and it definitely seemed awkward. But my shots were straighter and I got more movement when I used english. My backswing was limited though and I think that has to do with how tight I was gripping it. Should I keep practicing with the straight wrist or do what is comfortable? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Justin

Try sticking your pinky straight down. It helps keep your wrist from moving left or right.

 

[JrockJustin]

I forgot...

Hi Justin,
Glad you enjoyed the articles and could relate to them

The best way to get something from it is practice lots of breaks. The important thing to know is that you should be more relaxed and waiting for the muscles to flex back before contracting. You'll occassionally get a feel of something working right, but you can never force it...especially too early.

It is a kind of rythym thyming thing that becomes nature. Just like some kids work out how to throw rocks a long way, just how some people can run fast. It's much less to do with quick twitch fibres than experts thought.

Re: 3rd Part.

I discontinued with Cuezine because it was too much work getting the translations done into Chinese every week and it was mainly for a Chinese audience.

I am developing another site and will collect these articles and write a lot more, hopefully with more and better diagrams and even video tutorials.

I'll let you all know when I get it set up. I hope to catalogue a lot of tutorials from various authors so as to provide a convenient place for people to go to hear the various opinions and compare them.

Colin

I forgot that you don't live too far from me... What are you doing over in China?

 

[JrockJustin]

Wow!

Try sticking your pinky straight down. It helps keep your wrist from moving left or right.

Hey! that pinky thing is great!!! Thanks bro!

 

[hustlefinger]

Hey! that pinky thing is great!!! Thanks bro!

Actually, if you’d like to try something else – try griping with your back three fingers (pinky, ring and middle) and point your index finger down and thumb straight. Don’t use the thumb and index finger at all. It’s much harder to turn the wrist this way.

I don’t advocate playing this way. It’s just an experiment or exercise for not turning or twisting your wrist. The thumb and index finger tend to guide the wrist twist, so removing them may eliminate unwanted turning.

Rick

 

[chefjeff]

Jerry B. showed me, in Peoria, how and why Allison grips the cue. She puts it between her thumb and index finger as far up as possible so it is close to the "axis" of the wrist. Then, even if you tilt your wrist, the least movement possible happens to the butt of the cue, thus the least damage to the shot. She reduces her chances for major errors, I think is how he put it.

I've been trying it with improved results, my goal.

Thank you Jerry,

Jeff Livingston

 

[BRKNRUN]

Jerry B. showed me, in Peoria, how and why Allison grips the cue. She puts it between her thumb and index finger as far up as possible so it is close to the "axis" of the wrist. Then, even if you tilt your wrist, the least movement possible happens to the butt of the cue, thus the least damage to the shot. She reduces her chances for major errors, I think is how he put it.

I've been trying it with improved results, my goal.

Thank you Jerry,

Jeff Livingston

I have been a hard study of the fundamentals of pool in the last 6 months…(trying to make up for the lack luster dedication of the first 10 years)

I have been watching closely top players in my area and on TV. I have noticed something along the lines of your post above.

Of course I have to relate everything to golf…sorry for that..…In the golf grip (for the top hand) there is what is called a “short thumb” / “long thumb” concept …It is not based on how long your thumb actually is. It is based on how far down the grip you stretch your thumb… The concept is the longer you stretch your thumb down the grip the less “wrist action” you will get during the golf swing….A “short thumb” will allow more wrist movement…

This is obviously not the case for ALL players but I have seen quite a few top players that let the thumb lay way down on the grip…This has (I think the same or similar affect as Allison getting the cue up in the “Axis” as you put it)…

This also seems to keep the grip in the finger area instead of pulling it up into the palm. This gives reduced unwanted wrist action and you still have the feel and control of the cue being in the fingers of your hand…(which I would believe is where you want it)

This…(I feel) is a reason for having different diameter grip sizes for different hands…With a thick grip, I can’t get my hand around a thick grip and thus lose control of the cue….Since I have smaller hands, a thinner grip size allows me much better control over the cue. It lets me get the cue both in my fingers and up closer to the “axis” at the same time.

Not trying to say that this is the only way to do it…I have seen top players that only hold the cue pinched between two fingers, or a noticeable gap between the palm and the top of the cue…I think they grip it that way because they want more wrist action. Or have long hands (long fingers) ……

Just some observations for anyone who cares….I am open to comments from anyone that actually understands what the hell I am talking about...

 

[JrockJustin]

Jerry B. showed me, in Peoria, how and why Allison grips the cue. She puts it between her thumb and index finger as far up as possible so it is close to the "axis" of the wrist. Then, even if you tilt your wrist, the least movement possible happens to the butt of the cue, thus the least damage to the shot. She reduces her chances for major errors, I think is how he put it.

I've been trying it with improved results, my goal.

Thank you Jerry,

Jeff Livingston

I think that is how I already grab it... I don't make major errors so maybe I am on the right track... I make my most mistakes when I take my eye off the object ball preparing for my next shot... lol