How is a ferrule professionally repaired? (Mezz WX700)

JohnsonJ

New member
So I just picked up a WX700 with a cracked ferrule, and am wondering how would a professional repair it? I ask because I have an idea of turning it down on the lathe, cutting a left-handed metric thread on the cut-down cylinder (remainder of the cracked ferrule), cutting the matching left handed thread on a ferrule blank, and gluing the two together using 2-part 5min epoxy. I would tighten it with pliers to get it real tight, then shave it off and blend with the shaft. I'm a DIY-type of guy, and I have access to a metalworking lathe at work, so I thought why not try myself.


What I am wondering is, how does this actually get done by a professional? Is it a similar way, or do you just turn down the old ferrule to the original wooden threads, and then simply slide on a tube and glue it on, instead of cutting a new thread on the male and female part?

Since the ferrule is pretty much a blind hole inside a cylinder, I am assuming that the ''air pocket'' gap should be pretty much non-existent when gluing on the new ferrule, if done improperly, it will probably leave an audible ting. Is there a better way of doing this? Should I drill a very small hole in the center of the ferrule, so that the excess epoxy, inside the ''air pocket'', gets squeezed out of the ferrule hole?

I was thinking of doing pretty much this:

Also, does anyone know which brand ferrule (or the material) is used by Mezz for the WX700? I want to get it as close to original as possible.

I assume that the shaft originally has a right-handed thread of the ferrule (I would kindly ask for the dimensions if anyone knows?), and that's why I would be making a left-handed thread, so that there would still be some of the teeth left.

I also assume, since the ferrule broke at the bottom, that this is already a repaired ferrule on the shaft, so that's why it cracked at the bottom, since that's where the force concentration would be.

Thank you all in advance.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
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a1712

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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I believe the furrules are stepped, 2 different inside diameters. I don't know why I think that, or remember it that way, but I'm getting ready to do 5-WX700's myself. They all have cracked ferrules. Going to use Hydex and Tomahawk. Brian.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I repair these all the time.

I turn down the old ferrule and use my CNC router to cut new threads.

Phil

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
Another thin wall ferrule with cracking problems? I wonder why.
Smart move. Fix them so they last .
Those old moochi had cracking problems too. Good thing was their tenons were usually. 312 to .320 . I just clean them up and thread them 5/16 18 and spin a new ferrule in there.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looking at all the big brands out there, Mezz is one of those brands that have very little problems with ferrules cracking, but obviously it can happen.. Looking at the OP's shaft it's a well worn shaft for sure. Mezz uses their own NX material, but you can just as easily use Hydex 202, Tomahawk or even Juma. WX700 tennons have very shallow threads, think of it like a partial thread, so the big question is: do you have a single pitch thread mill and a router? Threads are not metric btw. Don't use 5 minute epoxy, use a quality epoxy like 3M or West systems.
 

shankster8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kim Bye objectively states "Looking at the OP's shaft it's a well worn shaft for sure." I agree, and note that, aside from the picture, we know little about that ferrule. For example, Mezz indicates the original ferrule diameter was 12.5mm. What is it now? Apparently joey knows: "Another thin wall ferrule with cracking problems? I wonder why." How thin is that ferrule wall, joey?
https://mezzusa.com/products/wx700-billiard-shaft
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kim Bye objectively states "Looking at the OP's shaft it's a well worn shaft for sure." I agree, and note that, aside from the picture, we know little about that ferrule. For example, Mezz indicates the original ferrule diameter was 12.5mm. What is it now? Apparently joey knows: "Another thin wall ferrule with cracking problems? I wonder why." How thin is that ferrule wall, joey?
https://mezzusa.com/products/wx700-billiard-shaft
Any shaft,
I don't care what it is or who made it or worked on it.
You machine the ferrule off carefully, then EVALUATE what is there for a tenon and go from there.
No ifs, but's, or ands.
This is how it's done, consistently!!!!
 

JohnsonJ

New member
Why a Metric thread
Are you outside the U. S.?
Left handed to, WHY?
Hello, yes I am from outside the US. Since I knew it would be a pain getting the correct thread cut, I thought I'd just go with a metric one. The reason for a left-handed thread, in my head, was that it would be impossible to clean up the existing one due to the epoxy, so I thought, that cutting a left-handed one would make for a better joint, compared to weakening the existing one with a new right-handed cut, which would have a 99% chance of not lining up with the already existing thread groove.

The shaft is currently at 12.50 mm exactly, not a 0.01 mm over or under.

So, since English is not my native language, I would like to ask: what exactly is a tenon? Is it a piece of wood that gets plugged into the shaft, and gets the thread cut on it? Because before making this post, I assumed it was the shaft itself that had the ferrule thread cut onto it.

Since I only have access to a lathe, I was thinking of using a hand-cutting die and supporting it with the tailstock of the lathe. Would this not suffice? It would be pretty much perfectly perpendicular and concentric to the shaft.

I guess I only have 3 questions left for this thread, if I can pick your heads a little more:
1) Which thread cutting die do you recommend I get?
2) How do I start cutting the thread exactly where the old one was? Will I even be able to see it? From the answers above, I am guessing if I make many shallow passes with the lathe, that I can manage to locate the thread, and then just position the die on the shaft accordingly?
3) What is the difference between tomahawk, NX and Juma ferrules? How does it feel differently play-wise? Which gets the least dirty with chalk?
I assume that all of these ferrules are some proprietary plastic blend, so looking up technical data such as the Young's modulus would probably not be fruitful.

Thank you all for your replies, you guys are great. An amazing forum.
 
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JohnsonJ

New member
Another thin wall ferrule with cracking problems? I wonder why.
Smart move. Fix them so they last .
Those old moochi had cracking problems too. Good thing was their tenons were usually. 312 to .320 . I just clean them up and thread them 5/16 18 and spin a new ferrule in there.
5/16x18 is what I should use for the Mezz that I picked up?
 

JohnsonJ

New member
Show a picture and measurements of the tenon now.
I am ordering the plastic adapter to fit the shaft into the lathe, and the replacement ferrule as I type this. Once I receive it (in a week or two), I will cut down the diameter of the cracked ferrule until I reach the tenon, measure it, and update. It's my first time ever doing anything like this, but since I got the cue for peanuts, I figured I'd learn how to do it properly, to do it right the first time, and to make use of the lathe at work.

I wasn't aware that the cutting dies used are compression dies. I was thinking of using a metal cutting one. Would this be a no-no?
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I am ordering the plastic adapter to fit the shaft into the lathe, and the replacement ferrule as I type this. Once I receive it (in a week or two), I will cut down the diameter of the cracked ferrule until I reach the tenon, measure it, and update. It's my first time ever doing anything like this, but since I got the cue for peanuts, I figured I'd learn how to do it properly, to do it right the first time, and to make use of the lathe at work.

I wasn't aware that the cutting dies used are compression dies. I was thinking of using a metal cutting one. Would this be a no-no?
Until then, you're just postulating.
You might be surprised what you'll see when that ferrule is gone.
A 5/16 18 compression die is not likely to work on that tenon.
Show pics and measurements of the tenon when you get there.
 

a1712

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you very much! Much appreciated! Will do!
There is a thread on here of a member doing a WX700 Ferrule, but alas, I can't find it. Found it 2 weeks ago, that's why I think the ferrule ID is stepped. Brian.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am ordering the plastic adapter to fit the shaft into the lathe, and the replacement ferrule as I type this. Once I receive it (in a week or two), I will cut down the diameter of the cracked ferrule until I reach the tenon, measure it, and update. It's my first time ever doing anything like this, but since I got the cue for peanuts, I figured I'd learn how to do it properly, to do it right the first time, and to make use of the lathe at work.

I wasn't aware that the cutting dies used are compression dies. I was thinking of using a metal cutting one. Would this be a no-no?
Where in Europe are you mate?
 

Ģüśţāṿ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The glue they use is not very strong, it might be regular wood glue. I've had great success in using a heat gun on low power, heating up the end of the ferrule for about a minute for so, then it simply screws off.

I've changed a few of them (all cracked) in this fashion and replaced with the same NX ferrule. I have not had one crack when installed with epoxy, make sure to use a tip pad when installing the tip.

I have do not have the same level of experience as other posters in this thread, so take my advise with a grain of salt.
 

JohnsonJ

New member
The glue they use is not very strong, it might be regular wood glue. I've had great success in using a heat gun on low power, heating up the end of the ferrule for about a minute for so, then it simply screws off.

I've changed a few of them (all cracked) in this fashion and replaced with the same NX ferrule. I have not had one crack when installed with epoxy, make sure to use a tip pad when installing the tip.

I have do not have the same level of experience as other posters in this thread, so take my advise with a grain of salt.
It is funny that I haven't thought about this at all, then a colleague mentioned it a hour ago, I thought I'd ask on here, and now you beat me to it. I was wondering if I could simply hit it with a blow torch for like 2 seconds, and then just grab it with a pair of pliers and twist it off? I would obviously wrap something around the shaft, and have the flame pointed away from it. I am starting to like this idea more and more to be honest.
 
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