How is a ferrule professionally repaired? (Mezz WX700)

[Ģüśţāṿ]

I would not recommend a blow torch, you risk melting the ferrule. It's very difficult to control the heating with this method in my experience. It'll work for a joint pin, but not a ferrule.

Just a little bit of heat via heat gun, carefully aimed near the end of the ferrule. I will cover the end of the shaft with something to help protect it. Not enough heat is better than too much!

 

[pip9ball]

Hello, yes I am from outside the US. Since I knew it would be a pain getting the correct thread cut, I thought I'd just go with a metric one. The reason for a left-handed thread, in my head, was that it would be impossible to clean up the existing one due to the epoxy, so I thought, that cutting a left-handed one would make for a better joint, compared to weakening the existing one with a new right-handed cut, which would have a 99% chance of not lining up with the already existing thread groove.

The shaft is currently at 12.50 mm exactly, not a 0.01 mm over or under.

So, since English is not my native language, I would like to ask: what exactly is a tenon? Is it a piece of wood that gets plugged into the shaft, and gets the thread cut on it? Because before making this post, I assumed it was the shaft itself that had the ferrule thread cut onto it.

Since I only have access to a lathe, I was thinking of using a hand-cutting die and supporting it with the tailstock of the lathe. Would this not suffice? It would be pretty much perfectly perpendicular and concentric to the shaft.

I guess I only have 3 questions left for this thread, if I can pick your heads a little more:
1) Which thread cutting die do you recommend I get?
2) How do I start cutting the thread exactly where the old one was? Will I even be able to see it? From the answers above, I am guessing if I make many shallow passes with the lathe, that I can manage to locate the thread, and then just position the die on the shaft accordingly?
3) What is the difference between tomahawk, NX and Juma ferrules? How does it feel differently play-wise? Which gets the least dirty with chalk?
I assume that all of these ferrules are some proprietary plastic blend, so looking up technical data such as the Young's modulus would probably not be fruitful.

Thank you all for your replies, you guys are great. An amazing forum.

The mezz NX ferrule has a thread pitch of 1.25mm.

My method for removing the old ferrule is to spin the shaft in reverse and use a leather strap on the ferrule to build up friction/heat. Once the old glue melts it will spin right off.

Often times with this method, the remaining threads are clean enough to use. I recommend some acetone and a stiff brush though.

On shafts with damaged threads, you can chase them with a threaded endmill. You can use your cellphone camera to help align the threadmill.

Good luck!

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Dave38]

It is funny that I haven't thought about this at all, then a colleague mentioned it a hour ago, I thought I'd ask on here, and now you beat me to it. I was wondering if I could simply hit it with a blow torch for like 2 seconds, and then just grab it with a pair of pliers and twist it off? I would obviously wrap something around the shaft, and have the flame pointed away from it. I am starting to like this idea more and more to be honest.

Depending on the thickness of the ferrule, it can work well, or create a molten mess. I machine it down until I can just see the threads thru the plastic, then use a heat gun to remove the rest, usually can unscrew it. I also use the heat gun and a pick to remove any epoxy that is on the threads
Hope this helps
Dave

 

[snookered_again]

maybe a heat gun rather than a flame.. ?
Tenon comes form the wood joint "mortise and tenon" , but in this case they are referring to a round one.. Try googling "round tenon" then the term will make more sense.

 

[billsey]

You will likely find that a blow torch will put too much heat too quickly, a heat gun is better since it will be more gradual.

 

[snookered_again]

often i use a heat gun to strip paint around windows There I find a piece of aluminum flashing is handy as a heat deflector. Too much heat can break a window,, you might do similar and roll up a piece of aluminum , even just some foil.. it distributes heat away nicely, aluminum has good heat conductivity properties. wood or plastic, or the varnish on the cue, does not. The leather strap was a clever idea.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Update: great success thank you all!

https://imgur.com/a/uOuXIMO

https://imgur.com/a/HiMPUOO

 

[JoeyInCali]

Update: great success thank you all!

https://imgur.com/a/uOuXIMO

Surprise Surprise.
Big fat tenon.
Does the tenon have a hole?
What size?
Good work.

 

[a1712]

Update: great success thank you all!

https://imgur.com/a/uOuXIMO

Well, I was wrong. That's a simple job. Thanks for posting the pic. Brian.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Surprise Surprise.
Big fat tenon.
Does the tenon have a hole?
What size?
Good work.

The inner diameter of the hole is 6.60 mm (0.26 in), outer diameter is 9.65 mm (0.38 in), outer diameter of the thread is 9.88 mm (0.389 in), inner diameter of the thread is 9.80 mm (0.386 in). The thread is pretty much cosmetic at best, I think the shaft would be much better with no thread on it at all, since it's obvious the glue sheared, and the ferrule cracked at the bottom, at the shaft mating surface, as a result of stress.

I will just glue it with epoxy, cut the OD on a lathe (ordering carbide insert for plastic right now), and that should be it.

The inside of the hole does have some material inside of it (I suspect polystyrene?), which I did shrink a bit, I'll just cut it out, and shove in a polystyrene cylinder (measuring the weight of the two bits and comparing, of course).

 

[JoeyInCali]

The inner diameter of the hole is 6.60 mm (0.26 in), outer diameter is 9.65 mm (0.38 in), outer diameter of the thread is 9.88 mm (0.389 in), inner diameter of the thread is 9.80 mm (0.386 in). The thread is pretty much cosmetic at best, I think the shaft would be much better with no thread on it at all, since it's obvious the glue sheared, and the ferrule cracked at the bottom, at the shaft mating surface, as a result of stress.

I will just glue it with epoxy, cut the OD on a lathe (ordering carbide insert for plastic right now), and that should be it.

The inside of the hole does have some material inside of it (I suspect polystyrene?), which I did shrink a bit, I'll just cut it out, and shove in a polystyrene cylinder (measuring the weight of the two bits and comparing, of course).

It's close to Predator spec except Predator does not have threads or scores.
You can't use a 5/16 18 compression die because it would require you to turn down the tenon to around .285".
I don't think you have a live threader and imperial gears so live threading 5/16 18 ( which will make that tenon really thin ) is out of the question.
Clean the threads and buy a matching tap for your new ferrule is what's probably best to do.
Fill the hole with foam.
If you don't care about low end-mass properties or low deflection, you can drill a bigger hole and plug it up with maple tenon.
But, that will change the shaft's end mass.
I suggest using hydex or isoplast material over the much heavier Juma.
Keep it capped ,if not use a tip backer/plate on the face to cover the hole.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Will do as suggested, I will pick up the original Mezz ferrule though, to keep it original. Thanks for your help (all of you) very much!

I just measured the pitch, and it seems to be 1.25 mm. Which would be an M10 fine thread (standard being 1.50 mm pitch). I'll get a M10 fine thread cutter, and will cut both the tenon and the ferrule, to make the new one last longer. This sure was a fun learning experience.

Time to start a new thread regarding the butt's restoration

 

[snookered_again]

I would have approached it by turning down the wood as little as possible. measuring that then making the ferrule up myself to fit, and I personally dont see the reason for needing threads.. But listen to the other guys, The cue makers.. Its not what I do.. It is what they do.. so...

I'm just learning what I can.. I do have a 9" southbend clone but I think I need a center rest.. I might be able to clamp a cue in the chuck to do re-tipping for myself, if I make up a plastic tapered collet...
If it will fit from the left hand side, as it is I have a wall in the way so need to move my lathe over.. I'd drill a hole in the wall but the electrical panel and wiring is too close..
The bore size in the chuck may limit things for me.

when they glue up things like wood laminations with epoxy they often use vacuum bagging, a small vacuum pump or a vacuum generator device is used to maintain vaccum until epoxy sets.

It draws out any air trapped, so I wondered if something similar might help pull any air pockets, or excess glue out.. the same idea is used in casting epoxy and things like that to void a mold of air bubbles.
I've been curious if the idea could help gain a good solid bond without any voids when bonding cue tips. maybe?

 

[dendweller]

It's close to Predator spec except Predator does not have threads or scores.

Someone has posted on a number of occasions that the wx700 is solid construction but still gets similar ld properties to a 314.
I always wondered how that could be possible. Guess it's not.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Here is an update since I see the thread is still a bit active, my first ferrule replacement, went perfectly (thanks to all your help):

https://imgur.com/uXGqJjV

https://imgur.com/uM9l1Vy

https://imgur.com/IXz9oSw

https://imgur.com/ztnXmn7

https://imgur.com/2Mi0IUa

 

[JohnsonJ]

https://imgur.com/vwNw5nA

https://imgur.com/YWXsmRI

https://imgur.com/y40fcPH

edit: not sure why one photo isn't showing, I tried several links. After I filled the hollow hole, I epoxied a plastic plate on top of the shaft, over which I then mounted the ferrule.