How is everyone playing 10 ball?????????

I think I also like push after miss.

I'm not worried about the creative 2-way shot so much, it's just that if I miss and get hooked and I'm forced to shoot again... I'm not so hot at kicking :p Potentially I give up ball in hand for missing and getting a roll... it used to be considered a good roll but now it'd be called a bad roll.

I know the other guy hates giving up BIH because of my miss... that's a harsh penalty. But putting that same penalty on me doesn't make it fair, it's still the same harsh penalty. A push is a little more reasonable.
 
sjm said:
Your first post? Wow! I'd have to call this one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum, and if this is the quality of the posts we can expect of you, your addition to our forum is something to be celebrated. My thoughts exactly.

The "give the table back" option may eliminate some luck, but it also introduces a significant luck factor because a player whose miss, by chance, leaves a horrible position, is overpenalized. Permitting a pushout in this situation is a nice middle ground, but retaining the two way shot, which requires more imagination than any other shot in pool, allowing players to play very difficult shots with a built-in defensive element.

At Valley Forge, I watched a player shoot the same nine ball four times in a row, being asked to remain at the table after each of their three misses because they ended up hooked behind the ten. In my mind, that's not pool, and a confused spectator sitting next to me asked me what was going on. Each time we make this game less recognizable to our fan base, we devalue the professional pool product by making it just a bit less marketable to those fans. Strangely, few seem to care.
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I'm with you SJM. Call shot was tried for 9 ball on CJ's tour. It is a bad idea imo. Texas Express rules are far superior to any push out or call shot rules. Ten ball was always played just like nine ball in the past. The Camel Tour had all their biggest tournaments in 10 ball, and none were call shot.

Call shot rewards safety play too much (since you have to call a ball when kicking too, or call safe, and most kicks are low percentage shots) and push out rules diminish the value of safeties too much imo.
 
Big-Tattoo said:
10 Ball is much better then 9 Ball, no lucky Shots, nearly same rules as 8 Ball. When the 10 Ball goes into the Pocket after the Break then comes all the Time on the back to the Spot. You have to say all the time when you play combis, whnen you play safe and the Ball falls into a Pocket(you not want) so the other can say you playing or he playing.
Ralf
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...agree 100 %
*dumbs high* from overseas !

lg
Ingo
 
JustinHayes said:
So I read that as BCA is slop rules like 9-ball and WPA is call pocket and pass the shot on a miss?

Of course, they are in conflict!
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The way I read the WPA rules (9.8 specifically) there is no option to pass the shot back on a miss UNLESS the called ball goes down in a wrong pocket, another balls goes down, or a foul is committed. On a simple miss with no balls pocketed or a foul committed, the incoming player must take the cue ball in position.

I'm not sure it was played this way at the SBE. IIRC the option was allowed on all misses, whether or not a ball was pocketed. But this is not the WPA rule the way I read it.
 
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AtLarge said:
I think that sacrificing the 2-way shot and "missing correctly" -- in order to significantly reduce the game's pernicious luck -- is well worth it.

The 10-ball rules used at the SBE this past weekend seemed to be well received, and they produced a tournament that was thoroughly enjoyable with some extremely high-level play. Kudos to Tony Robles for using similar rules on his tour, and kudos to Allen Hopkins for trying them this year at the SBE.
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The only part of the "LUCK FACTOR" that I could do without is the slopping in of balls in other pockets. Getting a good or bad roll is part of the game itself. Playing a 2 way shot/Safety is not "LUCK" IMO.

I think giving the option to give a shot back to your opponent on a miss is a cowardly thing. The Pro's accept these positions and have learned to kick safe back to their opponents. That's a beautiful part of the game that I don't want to see go away.
 
I see it this way. Ten ball requires you to call shots as you go in order. The 10ball can NOT go in on a break for an immediate win of the rack. If someone makes another shot that he/she didn't call, the ball stays as is for the opponent to choose whether to take his/her inning or keep the shooter's inning going. I can see this eliminating the problem of player "A" slopping a shot and continues. This way luck is NOT a factor. Another thing is that 9ball has certain balls that naturally drop when the top ball is hit full on a break. In ten ball, nothing goes in naturally. Ten ball also tends to have clutters off the break, so only the more skillful players have the upper hand to run out. The rules to ten ball are set up so that the "better man" wins.

Ten ball just seems to be the next level up from 9ball. That extra ball changes the game completely. Not that most people have mastered 9ball to move up, but getting used to ten ball, does tend to make nine ball a much easier game.
 
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