How is it possible that my side pockets have no folds?

Shaft

Shaft

Hooked and Improving
Silver Member
I bought a brand-new Valley 8ft coin-op Black Cat 2 in 2005. (This is not my dream table, but it is all I can afford and fit at this time.) To "seal the deal with my wife," the distributor I bought it from offered to recover it, at no additional charge, with a Mali cloth that "matched the color of our brick." ("Paprika," LOL!)

At the time, I knew absolutely nothing about cloth, so I was happy to accept the offer, especially if the recover made my wife happier with the table, and it did, very much. (I have to admit, the matching color looks pretty doggone good.)

Now after 3 year of very moderate use, the Mali cloth is already showing bald spots and I plan to recover it with Simonis 860HR in 2009 (thanks to Glen, aka RealKingCobra, for the recommendation). (BTW, Anybody know a good Valley mechanic in the New Orleans area?)


I notice that there are no folds in the Mali cloth at the side or corner pockets. How is that possible? It seems to defy the laws of geometry.

Is Mali cloth so stretchy it can stretch around those points without puckering? If I get Simonis, am I guaranteed to have folds? If so, how do I judge if the mechanic's folds will or will not screw up the play?

Any advice you guys can offer will be greatly appreciated.
 
You will never have any folds in the corner pockets on any table, only the side pockets. In your case with a Valley, the cushions come off along with a wooden backing which alows you to stretch in such a way that you can put the rail cloth on without a fold in the side pockets. With other tables that the cushions are fastened to the rails its really not easy to eliminate folds in the side pockets. Any brand cloth you install on your valley can be installed without folds in the side pockets.
 
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i never had folds on regular cloth i just streched it around the side and corner pockets, made a nicer looking job...
on simonis 860/760 and championship 3030 i folded the side pockets.
folding the cloth will not hurt the playabilty of the table.
scott
 
The cloth will actually give enough to allow you to cover the rails with no folds or crushing of the cushion corner if it's done correctly. I've heard lots of excuses why a particular mechanic doesnt do the rails without folds and it usually comes down to lack of skill. I agree that on a feather strip rail you'll crush the crap out of the cushion point and the cloth will wear through first as well as play wrong and look bad. I have seen but do not use a no-folds technique on feather strip rails where you "gather" more cloth at the side pocket end of the rail as you are installing the feather strip. This gets rid of enough of the excess cloth so that the rest can be scrunched up on the rail bottom.
We have a video available that shows you how we have done coin rails since 1976 with no folds or crushing. Also includes lots of other coin rail techniques and tricks and how-tos. Free shipping
www.penguinamusement.com
 
Mr Penguin said:
The cloth will actually give enough to allow you to cover the rails with no folds or crushing of the cushion corner if it's done correctly. I've heard lots of excuses why a particular mechanic doesnt do the rails without folds and it usually comes down to lack of skill. I agree that on a feather strip rail you'll crush the crap out of the cushion point and the cloth will wear through first as well as play wrong and look bad. I have seen but do not use a no-folds technique on feather strip rails where you "gather" more cloth at the side pocket end of the rail as you are installing the feather strip. This gets rid of enough of the excess cloth so that the rest can be scrunched up on the rail bottom.
We have a video available that shows you how we have done coin rails since 1976 with no folds or crushing. Also includes lots of other coin rail techniques and tricks and how-tos. Free shipping
www.penguinamusement.com
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Hey Fred,
You don't do worsted cloth with no folds do you? That stuff is way to tight.:grin-square:
 
Staple the cloth at one end first and stretch it from end to end, then all folds are made on the back side of the rail and not on the face of the pockets. No rocket science books required :thumbup:
 
Shaft said:
I bought a brand-new Valley 8ft coin-op Black Cat 2 in 2005. (This is not my dream table, but it is all I can afford and fit at this time.) To "seal the deal with my wife," the distributor I bought it from offered to recover it, at no additional charge, with a Mali cloth that "matched the color of our brick." ("Paprika," LOL!)

At the time, I knew absolutely nothing about cloth, so I was happy to accept the offer, especially if the recover made my wife happier with the table, and it did, very much. (I have to admit, the matching color looks pretty doggone good.)

Now after 3 year of very moderate use, the Mali cloth is already showing bald spots and I plan to recover it with Simonis 860HR in 2009 (thanks to Glen, aka RealKingCobra, for the recommendation). (BTW, Anybody know a good Valley mechanic in the New Orleans area?)


I notice that there are no folds in the Mali cloth at the side or corner pockets. How is that possible? It seems to defy the laws of geometry.

Is Mali cloth so stretchy it can stretch around those points without puckering? If I get Simonis, am I guaranteed to have folds? If so, how do I judge if the mechanic's folds will or will not screw up the play?

Any advice you guys can offer will be greatly appreciated.
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You should contact bars which you know have good tables and find your mechanic that way. I don't think folds are difficult for most mechanics and you should be more focused on how the bed cloth is done, this is the most important factor in how your table will play. I'm not impressed by the no fold side pockets and feel there's more cons than pros.
 
sdbilliards said:
You should contact bars which you know have good tables and find your mechanic that way. I don't think folds are difficult for most mechanics and you should be more focused on how the bed cloth is done, this is the most important factor in how your table will play. I'm not impressed by the no fold side pockets and feel there's more cons than pros.
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Agreed....
 
sdbilliards said:
You should contact bars which you know have good tables and find your mechanic that way. I don't think folds are difficult for most mechanics and you should be more focused on how the bed cloth is done, this is the most important factor in how your table will play. I'm not impressed by the no fold side pockets and feel there's more cons than pros.
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This is good advice.
 
I'd like to hear any cons as well. (On bar boxes) having no folds is a much cleaner look, keeps fabric behind the points, eliminates a possible "rise" under the rail where most techs put a staple, and it wears better because most folds I've seen wear out at ball contact in the middle of the fold.
 
TheTablePro said:
I'd like to hear any cons as well. (On bar boxes) having no folds is a much cleaner look, keeps fabric behind the points, eliminates a possible "rise" under the rail where most techs put a staple, and it wears better because most folds I've seen wear out at ball contact in the middle of the fold.
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The problem with no-folds is: it puts pressure on the facing causing a rounding rounding of the facing, The extra pulling needed opens the angle of the side pocket making the side pockets larger and personal I don't like the look, it looks like a big round nub.
 
Must be preference! I don't do many bar boxes any longer but used to do them daily back in the Midwest. It appears (by his photo's posted here) that Glen even uses the no fold method unless he's changed his technique. I'm sure he can chime in on that :grin:
 
Mr Penguin said:
And folds look better?
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here's mine...

sidefold2.jpg


sidestapling.jpg


Sidepocket.jpg
 
TheTablePro said:
Must be preference! I don't do many bar boxes any longer but used to do them daily back in the Midwest. It appears (by his photo's posted here) that Glen even uses the no fold method unless he's changed his technique. I'm sure he can chime in on that :grin:
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Glen uses the fold method, I learned mine from him.
 
Mr Penguin said:
And folds look better?
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Fred, just for you...I'm going to start taking pictures of the points of the facings comming through the cloth at the points of the side pocket facings, and the rounded snooker effect of the "NO" folds side pockets on bar tables, and post them here on AZ. :wink:

Glen
 
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