Pete said:
What's wrong with breaking and running out? Yes, you may have to lengthen the matches but I see absolutely nothing wrong with players running several racks at a time. In fact, I think that's what makes pool exciting.
How long before 10-ball replaces 9-ball
- Thread starter Cuebacca
- Start date
What's wrong with breaking and running out? Yes, you may have to lengthen the matches but I see absolutely nothing wrong with players running several racks at a time. In fact, I think that's what makes pool exciting.
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
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Jude Rosenstock said:
Hi Jude,
I totally agree. I love seeing racks strung together. I just think you would need to have much longer races (it seems they play shorter races playing 8 ball) than you would playing 9 ball or 10 ball. But break and runs are always cool to watch.
Pete
Pete said:
I think you're making a generalization. Yes, if the game were 8-ball you would likely see more break and runs however, there are plenty of games that can be extremely defensive and only add to the suspense of a probable explosive outburst. I think if you look at straight pool, you can get a sense of what I mean. There may be 10 safeties played in a row and all the while, both players are extremely aware of the fact that one mistake could cost them the match, even if the score is 0-0.
Also, if you watch some of the IPT matches, you'll realize that players do not always run out when the opportunity presents itself. If anything, the "luck factor" is minimized greatly since a miss often leads to a loss of game whereas in 9-ball, as we all know, a miss can occasionally be as effective (if not more effective) then what the shooter intended.
S
Scottster
Guest
I have been quiet long enough...
The main reason 10 ball is a better game for champions, and professional level pool boils down to one major concept of rotation pool... the break.
10-Ball Brings back, and awards the player with a big break that controls the cueball.
It eliminates the bickering and the rack mechanics of the 9-ball rack and the soft break is not near as effective.
Personally I like the fact that the high percentage "Dead Balls" are eliminated when playing 10-ball. I like seeing a monster break cracking the balls as whitey jumps backwards in the air and parks in the center of the table, thats rotation pool.
The powder puff break does not make for good TV and believe me the champions are still going to run racks playing 10 ball, dont kid yourself.
Someone mentioned earlier that for most players whose skill level is B+ or lower, that 9-ball is the game. That may be true, however these skill level players may be ignorant to the "fine details" of the 9-ball rack and fall as easy prey to someone who does know what they are doing. I hope that 10-ball does become the rotation pool game of choice.
If you want to know what the champions should really be playing in competition, thats simple.... Straight Pool.
The main reason 10 ball is a better game for champions, and professional level pool boils down to one major concept of rotation pool... the break.
10-Ball Brings back, and awards the player with a big break that controls the cueball.
It eliminates the bickering and the rack mechanics of the 9-ball rack and the soft break is not near as effective.
Personally I like the fact that the high percentage "Dead Balls" are eliminated when playing 10-ball. I like seeing a monster break cracking the balls as whitey jumps backwards in the air and parks in the center of the table, thats rotation pool.
The powder puff break does not make for good TV and believe me the champions are still going to run racks playing 10 ball, dont kid yourself.
Someone mentioned earlier that for most players whose skill level is B+ or lower, that 9-ball is the game. That may be true, however these skill level players may be ignorant to the "fine details" of the 9-ball rack and fall as easy prey to someone who does know what they are doing. I hope that 10-ball does become the rotation pool game of choice.
If you want to know what the champions should really be playing in competition, thats simple.... Straight Pool.
Jude Rosenstock said:
You are right, especially when targeting the TV audience. Most players did not give respect to 8 ball until IPT came along.
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I prefer to play 9-ball myself, but that's because I am not a top-player and because 9-ball is an easier game to play. And that tells me that 10-ball should be the tour-game!
Regarding TV and run-outs: I saw Bustamante were down 2 - 0 against Efren Reyes in 10-ball, then Efren got a dry break and didn't get a chance at the table again before it was 7 - 2 to Bustamante. So on tournaments with tv and pros there will still be ball on breaks and run-outs, but it will not be as boring as watching the wingball go down every time...
Btw: Philippines 10-ball Open in Manila 18 - 23 Sep this year, and World 10-ball Championship in Philippines next year...
Regarding TV and run-outs: I saw Bustamante were down 2 - 0 against Efren Reyes in 10-ball, then Efren got a dry break and didn't get a chance at the table again before it was 7 - 2 to Bustamante. So on tournaments with tv and pros there will still be ball on breaks and run-outs, but it will not be as boring as watching the wingball go down every time...
Btw: Philippines 10-ball Open in Manila 18 - 23 Sep this year, and World 10-ball Championship in Philippines next year...
jay helfert said:
Thanks for that trivia. Buddy Hall gave an exhibition one time at Dave Chartier's BreakZone about 15 years back now. I remember being enthralled by his stroke
And he was very friendly too. Wish I had seen him play in his prime Back to topic at hand, I favor 10 ball myself as it put less of an emphasis on power break and more of a premium on position playing.
Jude Rosenstock said:
Once again I agree.
I think straight pool is the best game and wish others enjoyed watching it as much as I do (I have all of the US 2000 open on tape from Accu-Stats). And I did watch the IPT, but they were using tight pockets and slow nappy cloth.
I did ask you about the equipment ideas. If 8 ball is played on tuff equipment it is a diffrent animal all together, but then again so is straight pool and 9/10 ball. If you watch the Accu-stats invetational 8 ball, you'll see that who ever got the first shot after the break won quite often (and yes I have all of those in my collection as well).
As I said, I agree with you, and wish more had similar views.
Pete
Pete said:
I think tight pockets would be interesting but not overwhelmingly different. The beauty of 8-ball is occasionally, close DOES count. Hang the 8-ball in a pocket your opponent needs to run-out and watch them do trick shot after trick shot to avoid it!
The problem with the break isn't solved with 10-ball. It doesn't just reduce the amount of break and runs, it nearly eliminates them. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but the truth is that the break is very little advantage in 10-ball. Being able to smash the balls hard and control whitey is also not as much of an advantage as it may seem. Certain break speeds in the power range tend to leave balls clustered on the rails instead of out in the open, and it requires more travelling up and down the table for position which is much more difficult in 10-ball because of the extra balls. It is more than a 1-ball penalty to running out. 9-ball should really be called 7.5-ball if you consider how many balls are made on a typical break. That's quite a large difference.
I think the best game to settle the break controversy is 8-ball. There seems to be more of an advantage to power breaking and more chance of making a ball on a break. The IPT has shown a good B&R %; one that makes it very possible to string multiple racks together but also not very commonplace. It's unfortunate that I find the game boring. I respect it, but I'd prefer to see a game where people move the balls around more and have more defensive skills.
I think the best game to settle the break controversy is 8-ball. There seems to be more of an advantage to power breaking and more chance of making a ball on a break. The IPT has shown a good B&R %; one that makes it very possible to string multiple racks together but also not very commonplace. It's unfortunate that I find the game boring. I respect it, but I'd prefer to see a game where people move the balls around more and have more defensive skills.
thoffen said:
How much 8-ball have you seen?
Jude Rosenstock said:
Plenty. 8-ball is more of a precision position game, 9-ball is more of an angles and cue ball action game. While great safety play in 8-ball is more challenging and often quite intriguing, it doesn't come up as often and requires totally different skills.
I wasn't attempting to put 8-ball down in any way. Just saying that I prefer to watch 9-ball.
thoffen said:
The reason why I ask is because a significant chunk of the time, defense DOES come up in 8-ball. I can't say it's quite as often as 9-ball but it's not rare, either. In fact, the defensive tactics can get extremely creative. A lot (not saying you) of people are quick to make assumptions about 8-ball without having spent any sort of real time playing it.
S
Scottster
Guest
thoffen said:
Does this mean you wont be at Strokerz this weekend?
thoffen said:
...but the truth is that the break is very little advantage in 10-ball...
The "break" is huge in every game... If you're at the table... you can win the game...
Make a ball on the break... you are in control... its what you do with it that matters..
As for 8 ball... not saying it doesn't require lots of skill sometimes, but generally, there are always too many options available to enable run-outs and I find many of the types of safeties pretty lame... afraid to "take on a shot", just roll the cue ball behind one of your balls...GREAT SHOT!
I agree with a previous poster in that I never see strong players matching up at 8 ball (other than in leagues).
I think 9 ball and 10 ball are more popular for gambling because there are many, many ways to handicap matches. Off hand, I think the only way to handicap 8 ball gambling sessions is by giving games on the wire.
fact is, its a much better game...
Please provide "facts".
I think that people favor games they are the most successful at. If I have more success at 9 ball or 10 ball... I like the game more than 8 ball.
This is my opinion... I don't have any "facts" to back it up.
Jude Rosenstock said:
Please provide "facts".
I think that people favor games they are the most successful at. If I have more success at 9 ball or 10 ball... I like the game more than 8 ball.
This is my opinion... I don't have any "facts" to back it up.