How long did it take you to learn Back English, BR, LR?

D

Destrukkt

9 ball/8 ball New Player
Silver Member
I've been playing for like 2 months and I can apply back english when practicing on a table with fast cloth. I only can do it in game if the shot is straight on and I don't have to focus on aim. IF I could apply back right english and back english to position my cueball for the next shot I would be much better than I am now.



How long did it take you to learn these skills? Cueball control, english.


My aim is fine for how long I've played and is improving at a normal rate but my english is very slow to improve. I learned how to apply back english a half table in about 5 minutes from a good player but haven't been able to do it as good since that day (he was telling me what I was doing wrong and I assume im doing something wrong again) I probably should get a few hours of lessons.. if I could just get cueball control down I would be very happy
 
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I was told by the local poolhall owner that I'm a natural, and that I just need to practice english.

He also said pool skill is all in the stroke, kind of difficult to know what he means. I understand a good solid SAME way of hitting the balls is important to keep you constant.
 
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It only took the first day to learn it. Mastering both close to perfection......Still working on it :lol:
thumbsup.gif
 
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Yea, there is def a difference between learning it and perfecting it. I still miss throw shots, actually way too often. Start of with easy, fairly straight shots. Watch how much you can throw the ball and develope a baseline. Then progress to more complicated shots using english.
 
I would venture to take a wild guess that 90% of AZ Billiards posters are still trying to learn not only 'HOW' but, "HOW to Consistently".

Consistently is the key. Reliably is LOCK.
 
Destrukkt said:
I've been playing for like 2 months and I can apply back english when practicing on a table with fast cloth. I only can do it in game if the shot is straight on and I don't have to focus on aim. IF I could apply back right english and back english to position my cueball for the next shot I would be much better than I am now.



How long did it take you to learn these skills? Cueball control, english.


My aim is fine for how long I've played and is improving at a normal rate but my english is very slow to improve. I learned how to apply back english a half table in about 5 minutes from a good player but haven't been able to do it as good since that day (he was telling me what I was doing wrong and I assume im doing something wrong again) I probably should get a few hours of lessons.. if I could just get cueball control down I would be very happy
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There's no secret stroke technique for getting draw (what you're calling "back english"); all you need to do is hit the cue ball low. But that's more difficult than it sounds - it takes lots of practice to develop a stroke that's accurate enough to hit the cue ball where you want to.

To prove this to yourself, use a striped ball as your cue ball with the stripe horizontal and try to hit right on the bottom edge of the stripe. Check the chalk mark on the striped ball after each hit to see how well you did.

It'll come. Work on moving only your forearm.

pj
chgo
 
Destrukkt said:
How long did it take you to learn these skills? Cueball control, english.
Click to expand...

Basic cue ball control? Not sure, less than a month.

Advanced Cue ball control? 5 years and counting. By that I mean, you never stop learning there is always something that can be improved upon.

The gentleman that told you that the stroke is the key to this game is absolutely right.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
I would venture to take a wild guess that 90% of AZ Billiards posters are still trying to learn not only 'HOW' but, "HOW to Consistently".

Consistently is the key. Reliably is LOCK.
Click to expand...

Tom in Cincy

After playing pool off & on for over 50 years I am still learning how to use English and play position.

Destrukkt

IMHO at two months you need to work on understanding the TANGENT line in relation to English. Just understanding the Tangent line and stroke speed without English is where I suggest you start. You can play position without English and use speed control that is the most important part of Position. The Tangent line is the Natual path of the CB after striking the OB. Right or Left English has little effect on the tanget line until the CB hits a rail.

After reading your post I googled "Tangent Line" and found this U tube. A picture is worth a thousand words and this U tube explains Tangel Line and Top and bottom English better than I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JON3QnGu5tU

After watching this U tube watch some of the other related U tubes offered at the end. I did not watch them but I am sure they all will help.

PS I can not stress how much understanding the Tangent line now with out English, will help you later on. I strongly suggest you use little or no English and practices ball speed for position. By planning your run and getting to the right side of the next OB you won't have to use English.
 
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Destrukkt

I believe it was you who ask about a Pool Instructor?? I strongly suggest you see one now to get the correct fundamental from the start. Be sure that instructor or yourself has a Video Camera. Seeing your self on film helps you learn Fundamental very quick. They start with How you approch the table and place your feet as a base of support.

I waited until I was in my 60's before going to a instructor. I wished I had taken lesson 40 years earlier. BTW I can out play my instructor. But he is a certified instructor who took a lot of traning. What he knew and helped me with was well worth the money.
 
Thanks alot everyone.

Ball banger your right.. if I can understand where the cue ball will go after each shot I would do MUCH better, as id be able to position my ball.

It seems as if tangent lines as you call them are sometimes random it seems to me. A very tricky thing to learn in some situations, some it is self-explained where the cueball will go. I would be so happy if I could just use draw alone for now while I learn tangent and english (bottom right/left)


I am going to go to Ray Martin for some lessons.. but I just had lessons from a good player and I was doing great when I was infront of him.. but when he left I slowly made mistakes again and cannot repeat what he taught me. I think this is probably my shitty memory, or not enough practice (it was like a 10 minute lesson) but it was only on how to draw the ball. I hit low and nothing happened. He told me to grip further back on the stick, and follow thru more (not get up immediately after hitting the ball) and I was drawing it half a table which was amazing for me. Now I can't do this but one out of 5 tries and he's not here to tell me what I'm messing up on. This is where the video camera suggestion seems genius, and I will hope that Ray Martin does use a video camera.

I will give Ray Martin a try and see if him pointing out my mistakes and teaching me where the cueball will go, and how to apply english correctly will stick in my memory. If it will then I have a few hundo ill put into lessons alone.


I understand cue ball control learning and perfectly are much different. I don't have a consistent stroke, and I don't know what the cue ball is going to do unless it's obvious (like I hit the object ball and the cue is obviously going to hit the rail and end up in spot X)

I want to play good for myself, I love the game and don't care about beating others, more-so just playing good.


Until I get a lesson going ill just try to learn the tangent line by myself, and practice drawing whenever I'm bored.
 
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Also another thing from learning "tangent" lines that is different from draw (and english) is just how much more fun the game seems when you can make the cue ball draw or give it english. It also seems like MOST of the shots I have no setup is due to the cueball getting ahead. If I could just draw it back I would be set in many problem ways. It also seems that draw would increase my ability to pocket balls rather than tangent lines, from the games i've played and what I've seen in shots that I have no setup on many times.

A story below will make me look like a novice fool, but what the hell:

Messing around I had a shot lined up in the top right pocket, very simple straight forward shot, and another simple shot behind it in the top left pocket. I thought what the hell ill try to draw it back and hit the other ball in as well and it worked. Nothing was better to me in pool then that shot, and that is SIMPLE as hell for all of you. I have made shots that skill wise were probably 10 fold that, but simply being able to draw the ball (only do rarely, the shot above was a one time thing), and give it bottom right english so it hits the object ball and bounces off the bumper and goes into position for your next shot (havent ever done this) is just amazing feeling and I want to learn this terribly.


When I can give the ball draw consistently I'll be very pleased, and when I can give it Bottom right or bottom left english I will be where I want to be. By bottom right and bottom left english I mean being able to hit the object ball and then make the cueball go right, whether its going right to line up for a ball to the right, or to go right and bounce off the bumper inorder to roll into place for another shot. These seem like the "building blocks" along with learning tangent lines. Once I have the building blocks it will just then take practicing them. I just wish I had those blocks in place now.

Frustrating knowing that 10 minutes of someones time taught me how to draw the ball inconsistently... if only I had someone who could play with me daily when I go to the hall and teach me I'd be fortunate :) Any florida people here want their table time paid? Come teach me ! ;)
 
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Ball Banger said:
Tom in Cincy

After playing pool off & on for over 50 years I am still learning how to use English and play position.

Destrukkt

IMHO at two months you need to work on understanding the TANGENT line in relation to English. Just understanding the Tangent line and stroke speed without English is where I suggest you start. You can play position without English and use speed control that is the most important part of Position. The Tangent line is the Natual path of the CB after striking the OB. Right or Left English has little effect on the tanget line until the CB hits a rail.

After reading your post I googled "Tangent Line" and found this U tube. A picture is worth a thousand words and this U tube explains Tangel Line and Top and bottom English better than I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JON3QnGu5tU

After watching this U tube watch some of the other related U tubes offered at the end. I did not watch them but I am sure they all will help.

PS I can not stress how much understanding the Tangent line now with out English, will help you later on. I strongly suggest you use little or no English and practices ball speed for position. By planning your run and getting to the right side of the next OB you won't have to use English.
Click to expand...

After watching that video it seems you need to know english. Notice he says this is the tangent line when you give it forward spin, this is the tangent line when you give it back spin, this is the tangent line when you give it no spin. It seems like I would need to know english to perform this.

I could see learning only one of the tangent lines, the type that the ball would do during a NORMAL shot, a normal shot being what the ball does when I just hit it normally to pocket it, not trying to give it any english what so ever.. however it seems my cueball sometimes spins, sometimes doesn't as my stroke does not produce exact results.
 
Destrukkt said:
Thanks alot everyone.

Ball banger your right.. if I can understand where the cue ball will go after each shot I would do MUCH better, as id be able to position my ball.

It seems as if tangent lines as you call them are sometimes random it seems to me. A very tricky thing to learn in some situations, some it is self-explained where the cueball will go. I would be so happy if I could just use draw alone for now while I learn tangent and english (bottom right/left)
Click to expand...


if the line seems random that is almost assuredly a stroke problem..

the tangent line is 90 degrees all the time when the CB is sliding at contact with the OB.

top (follow) and bottom (draw) bend the tangent line..

you can only draw the ball straight back if the shot is straight to begin with... if it's a cut shot .. the CB starts moving at a 90 degree angle to the direction the OB goes.. and then top or bottom takes over and bends that line...

Destrukkt said:
I am going to go to Ray Martin for some lessons..
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that is a very good Idea

Destrukkt said:
Until I get a lesson going ill just try to learn the tangent line by myself, and practice drawing whenever I'm bored.
Click to expand...

a better Idea would be to practice the Stop shot at several different distances.. once you know how much bottom spin at what speed gives you stop...

then you know how to follow the tangent line at an angle... THEN you are ready to increase and decrease speed to bend that line with follow and draw..

good luck:grin-square:
 
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softshot said:
if the line seems random that is almost assuredly a stroke problem..

the tangent line is 90 degrees all the time when the CB is sliding at contact with the OB.

top (follow) and bottom (draw) bend the tangent line..

you can only draw the ball straight back if the shot is straight to begin with... if it's a cut shot .. the CB starts moving at a 90 degree angle to the direction the OB goes.. and then top or bottom takes over and bends that line...



that is a very good Idea



a better Idea would be to practice the Stop shot at several different distances.. once you know how much bottom spin at what speed gives you stop...

then you know how to follow the tangent line at an angle... THEN you are ready to increase and decrease speed to bend that line with follow and draw..

good luck:grin-square:
Click to expand...

Softshot

The Tangent Line is not always 90 degrees. The Tangent line is directly proportion to the angle of attack. A straight in shot has a straight Tangent line with the OB. As the angle of attack increases so does the Tanget Line. Sorry I can't explain it better with words alone.

Destrukkt

One of the big mistakes with beginners is to try and be too fancy. Move the Cue as least as you have to for position. A long make-able shot is better than a close unmakeable shot. The harder you hit the CB the less actuate your stroke is. Use English only when you need to change the Tangent Line. Drills are your best teacher after getting the correct instruction. I am guilty of not doing drills and my game suffers because of it. Pool is a life time of learning, don't rush into trying to be an expert over night. Learning the basics well, will get you there much quicker.
 
Back english = draw, right?

BR = back-right = draw with right english, correct?

So what's LR?
 
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Wow, I must really be getting old. Backhand english, fronthand english. WTF is all that about?

Are these merely new fangled terms or jargon for draw and follow?

I have dismissed other discussions on these terms thinking they were ways to twist the front or back of the cue shaft as you stroke the ball, which I thought was ridiculous to begin with.

Now I see the term backhand english means nothing more than to draw the CB?
 
Play games that require the use of spin on the Q like bottle pool or any carom game. Or when you practice only have 2 balls on the table and try to hit both balls with the Q, don't worry about pocketing any balls just work on hitting both balls on each shot. You will accelerate the learning process.

Have fun!
 
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