InsertCleverNameHere
Well-known member
Tanks for men shouldn't even exist much less be worn in public. GOOD RULE.
How many pros can a tour support?
- Thread starter jbart65
- Start date
In no way am I comparing the two games… the point I was making goes back to the original question of this thread and my opinion on what it takes to pay the players and why it’s not happening in the USA.
InsertCleverNameHere
Well-known member
Yeah idk I don;t wanna read it again or anything point is they should hardly even be mentioned in the same breath imo.
I suspect professional pool has enough money in it to support 16 professionals, and not much more.
Sadly that’s about what I see.
It’s because in America pool was raised by a middle class family
Exactly… and the middle class is getting squeezed out!It’s because in America pool was raised by a middle class family
Who needs pro pool? I know a couple local guys that have made over 40G's apiece just playing Fargo events this year. I hope MR does well but pro pool is never going to be 'big time' in $ terms but there ARE a lot of other spots that 'joe public' can do well in. I'm not losing any sleep regarding the fortunes of pro pool, its players, sponsors, etc. Just spent 2+yrs beating the 'C' and i just don't give a flying fk about such trivial shit.
Like you I don't think pro pool will ever be big time in the U.S. Its heyday, if there ever was one, is long over.
In Asia and some other parts of the world it has a chance. Time will tell.
I don't need pro pool, just like I don't need any sport. But I enjoy watching it, and a bigger and better pro tour with a sizable stable of great fulltime players makes it all the more enjoyable.
Seemed like everyone I knew growing up played some pool at least casually, but most of the places where people could play are long gone.It’s because in America pool was raised by a middle class family
My father bought us a table when I was eight years old. To this day I have no idea why. I never saw him play, and he never mentioned playing when he was young. But our cellar became very popular.
Oddly, my son and his friends play pool somewhat regularly and it has really nothing to do with me. The friends of his with tables are from upper-middle class or wealthy families with lots of house space. My son first learned to play in the Outer Banks in North Carolina, where we vacation every year. About 40% of the rental homes have tables.
InsertCleverNameHere
Well-known member
Happy you made it through that man, scary stuff. Good to have it behind you.
Looking at the AZB money leaderboard for 2023, 16th is about $90,000. If you subtract expenses and add sponsorships and other possible related income, that's maybe $100,000. That's comparable to the starting salary for a new PhD graduate in the US, which I think is a reasonable threshold.
If the money continues to increase on the tour(s) and independent events, I can see this extending to 32 players, but the ones at the bottom will have to put in extra effort for lessons, exhibitions, and sponsors.
The starting salary for a computer architect is closer to $140K without a PHD--and that was in 2012 when I last looked.
And they still have to pay their own travel expenses.
Yes, there is hope for the future, but as of current it is a bit bleak.
if its not exciting you will never get outside interest or money. so a death bed is what is waiting. while it stays on life support.
asia taking over might make pool great but it will certainly look different.
american pool games are just boring to watch simple as that. 8 ball offers a little hope.
9 and 10 ball will sink pro pool.
asia taking over might make pool great but it will certainly look different.
american pool games are just boring to watch simple as that. 8 ball offers a little hope.
9 and 10 ball will sink pro pool.
Zerksies
Well-known member
Most pro tours can barely support a few players. The prize pools are way too small. Most players in the money are only winning a few thousand dollars per trip. Quite a few TD's are scumbags and you are lucky to get the full amount you are due. Subtract the road fees you are lucky to make a profit on tournament winnings. And no one is really dominating the tour right now.
Fast Eddie said the money is in the practice room. The guy can get knocked out the first day of the tournament and make more money then the guy who won it.
Fast Eddie said the money is in the practice room. The guy can get knocked out the first day of the tournament and make more money then the guy who won it.
Wow, must suck to live in your area. In my parts all the TD's are awesome and everyone gets paid what they're due. Most 'tours' these days are just regional and are not expensive to play on. The WestCoast, JOSSnortheast, FloridaPredator,DFW and Centex in Texas are all very well run. They are mostly weekend warrior pros not full-timers like on the WNT tour. The after event gambling these days is almost a thing of the past. Not like it used to be for sure. Too bad too, that was the best part of a tournament in 80's-90's.
it basically boils down to low entry fees. so low payoffs.
the world series of poker raised entry fees and got payouts over a million on most tournaments, and now have way more contestants than they can really handle.
the contestants pay thousands to enter each tournament looking for the big pay off. and of course poker is set up so even the bad players have the perception that they can win if things go lucky for them. so big fields and tv rights.
in pool, it is obvious to even a fool, that his entry fee is trash. and he has no chance of collecting, and all he is doing is paying to watch someone run out balls while he watches.
the world series of poker raised entry fees and got payouts over a million on most tournaments, and now have way more contestants than they can really handle.
the contestants pay thousands to enter each tournament looking for the big pay off. and of course poker is set up so even the bad players have the perception that they can win if things go lucky for them. so big fields and tv rights.
in pool, it is obvious to even a fool, that his entry fee is trash. and he has no chance of collecting, and all he is doing is paying to watch someone run out balls while he watches.
If that is the funding model for a pool tournament, then it's not going to support the players very well. Most of the prize fund needs to come from someone other than the players.
Around the time Matchroom took over the US Open (9-ball), they said that the goal was to have zero entry fee. The way that could work is for the 128 tour players to get free entry and the rest to get in from qualifiers. Matchroom seems to be working towards that. Of course this depends on broadcast rights and advertisers bringing in more money.
problem is the organizers dont make enough to support the big prize funds needed to create excitement for viewers and new players.
and its like gambling and waiting for a backer. if you think you can win, put up your entry fee. players want to play and want to win big not grind out a bus drivers living. to do that, there has to be a big entry fee collected from someplace, or and, an outside entity supplying money for rights of some kind which isnt going to happen at pool as the audience is too small to invest.
and its like gambling and waiting for a backer. if you think you can win, put up your entry fee. players want to play and want to win big not grind out a bus drivers living. to do that, there has to be a big entry fee collected from someplace, or and, an outside entity supplying money for rights of some kind which isnt going to happen at pool as the audience is too small to invest.
All of them, if they were willing to pour millions and millions of dollars into the game, without concern of profit. Think "Sinquefeld" family in chess, which stood up a top notch facility in St. Louis, and gives money to chess tournament prize funds.
For those outside of the top earners, they couch surf, or they have someone directly supporting them, i.e. trust fund, or significant other. Jose Parica's wife has money, and for quite a while she was funding his pool adventures when he wasn't earning that much.
For players in the Phillippines, they gamble with each other, and the tier1 players make a pretty decent living, for at least some period of time, until they kill their action by playing too good, and have to start travelling to larger events. Only a percentage of THOSE folks end up making it big on the international stage. And even those (like Orcullo) supplement their tournament winnings by being stone cold, rock hard gamblers who give crazy spots to amateurs while at bigger events, and outrun the nuts.
Some in the U.S.A. who really dedicate themselves to coaching and live in a state where they can cultivate a number of people who take lessons regularly, can make a "passable" living. But really.. The main pros making any decent money at coaching are attached to high-rent pool halls with clientele with too much money, and are "house pros". Think: Tony Robles.
Some like Niels Feijen, once they get too old to consistently take down top tournaments, turn to putting out content in a paid manner, or trying to build some sort of training app like Ralf Eckert that returns passive income. Niels started WAY too late with this, and should have started doing this 10 years ago, AT LEAST. Ralf Eckert's app caters to German speaking customers (though he may have language options now), and was funded by his owning one of the best pool halls in Germany, one of the first ones to put in Diamond tables.
Gorst has his head screwed on straight and is trying to get started on his social media presence early, while he is making a ton of money. Now that he is a U.S. citizen, he needs to get with SVB and get some guidance, as I would bet that SVB more or less has all the real estate investments he'll ever need, even if he retired right now. SVB's family really guided him well in his early success, about what to do with that money. Unless something amazing happens with Matchroom, I don't see a pure Youtube related strategy ever working for a pool player. But SVB also got into the real estate market at the right time, before housing prices shot up as a result of hedge fund managers buying up huge real esate portfolios.
Along those lines... Some players are smart and simply invest in either pool halls, or other business opportunities while they still have some money.
Dennis Hatch - Steakhouse/bar
SVB - Real Estate
Pete Margo (60's/70's 14. player) - Invested in a brand new VCR tape rental market, and became a millionaire
C.J. Wiley - Promoted big events, and owned multiple pool halls
And I am sure that there are a few other rare instances of American pool pros that had the sense to invest in something outside of the pocket billiards world, before they hit their 40s and their vision/nerves started to go...
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