How much to stage an IPT event...

[TheOne]

...Im curious I've heard a few players take the bait and say that it costs millions to hold an IPT event. I don't know the figures but I'd be VERY suprised if it cost more than about $150,000, very suprised. However I have to admit I clueless as to how much it would cost to book a casino for the week but my instinct tells me it wouldn't be that much given the amount of business the casino would bring in.

Given the number of knowledgable members on this forum I thought it would be useful to find out a rough cost of holding one of these events? Then we might be able to get a rough idea of the IPT finances to date.

 

[Eieio59]

First, let me ask 2 questions:

1) Have you attended one of the IPT events, and if so, which one/s?

2) Have you ever promoted and produced any event held in a large convention setting where you had to secure lodging, meals, tables, tv, referrees, etc....?

Just a couple of questions so I'll know more about how to answer you question..

Thanks
Tammie Jones

 

[TheOne]

First, let me ask 2 questions:

1) Have you attended one of the IPT events, and if so, which one/s?

2) Have you ever promoted and produced any event held in a large convention setting where you had to secure lodging, meals, tables, tv, referrees, etc....?

Just a couple of questions so I'll know more about how to answer you question..

Thanks
Tammie Jones

If I had then.

a) I wouldnt be admitting lack of knowledge and asking for help, and
b) This is more for the forums benifit than my own which is prob the best way to view the thread as there will be a wide range of expertise.

I have heard wildly changing opinions of costs, lets try and nail down what it would REALLY cost?

 

[smashmouth]

The better question would be what it is costing KT, which is next to nothing, most all costs are either sponsored or comped.

 

[shir]

sorry off topic..
That table looks great TheOne!!!
Have I seen it before somewhere?
haha

 

[TheOne]

sorry off topic..
That table looks great TheOne!!!
Have I seen it before somewhere?
haha

hehe, I just woke up one morning and it was there!!!

Stil can't walk properly, oh and HOBWeert found the instructions today and was kind enough to fax them to me. Know I know what those left over screws are for!

 

[TheOne]

Has nobody here worked with the BCA before. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of difference in costs between the BCA Nationals and the IPT Events. I mean the BCA hires atleast 2 MASSIVE rooms, has over 250 tables, various "free" events with food and drink. They also have the Pro arena, which is filemd by ESPN. Ok the setup might not be as crisp as the IPT appears to be BUT is it that much difference? Does the BCA really have the cash to blow $3m in setup costs on this event?

 

[Bob Jewett]

...Im curious I've heard a few players take the bait and say that it costs millions to hold an IPT event. I don't know the figures but I'd be VERY suprised if it cost more than about $150,000, very suprised. ...

Let's consider the Orlando event. There was no hotel to underwrite the room, so they had to rent the convention space. At the Riviera I think the hotel expects to get something like $20,000 in room premiums for a space about that large. That is, rooms reserved for an event are priced enough above the discount rate to pay about that much for the room, and in return the organizer is not charged for the tournament room. Maybe Orlando is higher, as it is a nicer venue.

There were about 30 TV production people there for about a week. I think that costs between $200,000 and $400,000, including post-production. I've heard that it costs about $35,000 to have an independent company tape and produce a 2-hour program from two or three matches on a single table on a single day. Consider the Mother Ship.

There were about 20 IPT staffers, with rooms, meals, travel and pay. I'll guess that each one cost about $3,000 for the long week, for a total of $60,000. Include the referees.

Set production. I think at Orlando this could have easily been $20,000. Include the probably union labor to set it up.

There was the pre-tournament work and publicity. How many on staff? How much was the website to develop and maintain? What other direct costs? I think this could easily be $100,000.

There was the small matter of having 20 or so tables set up. Maybe that cost was put on the manufacturer.

I don't think that the last two events (Venetian and Grand Sierra) generated that much gambling revenue for the casinos.

 

[ScottW]

The better question would be what it is costing KT, which is next to nothing, most all costs are either sponsored or comped.

The only stuff that MIGHT be comped is the venue space, catering at the event, and if the venue is also a hotel, some hotel rooms. And since KT himself (Natural Cures) is the main sponsor, that's a red herring as well. Sure, they've announced Vonage and Ho Casinos as sponsors, but very very recently - too recently, IMHO, to have made any difference in the Reno event.

Just off the top of my head, here's a list of stuff that would/could cost some $$$:

* Venue space itself (main room, other side rooms)
* Catering at the venue space for the players
* Rigging (both equipment rental, i.e. the rigging and the lights and the labor involved in setup/breakdown)
* Video related costs (equipment rental, cameraman labor, main board labor, etc.)
* Referee costs (travel, lodging, meals, and labor costs)
* IPT staff costs (travel, lodging, meals, and labor costs)
* Any other hotel/travel costs for other people (guests, players if they paid that, etc.)
(Edit) * Table costs - shipping, setup, breakdown, shipping back

I'd say it's pretty dang pricy overall.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Has nobody here worked with the BCA before. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of difference in costs between the BCA Nationals and the IPT Events. I mean the BCA hires atleast 2 MASSIVE rooms, has over 250 tables, various "free" events with food and drink. They also have the Pro arena, which is filemd by ESPN. Ok the setup might not be as crisp as the IPT appears to be BUT is it that much difference? Does the BCA really have the cash to blow $3m in setup costs on this event?

The tables at the league tournaments (BCAPL, APA, VNEA) pay for themselves. Players put lots and lots and lots of coins into the tables. The Riviera almost certainly does not charge for the ballrooms because all those players pretty much guarantee that the hotel is full for the duration. The room rates that the tournament players get is not a discount rate. The price they pay for food in the hotel is higher than they pay at home, probably. And there are lots of them with nothing to do most of the time and maybe they gamble or visit the Splash Bar.

That leaves the pro event. It has sponsors. Maybe the TV from it actually makes money.

 

[TheOne]

Let's consider the Orlando event. There was no hotel to underwrite the room, so they had to rent the convention space. At the Riviera I think the hotel expects to get something like $20,000 in room premiums for a space about that large. That is, rooms reserved for an event are priced enough above the discount rate to pay about that much for the room, and in return the organizer is not charged for the tournament room. Maybe Orlando is higher, as it is a nicer venue.

There were about 30 TV production people there for about a week. I think that costs between $200,000 and $400,000, including post-production. I've heard that it costs about $35,000 to have an independent company tape and produce a 2-hour program from two or three matches on a single table on a single day. Consider the Mother Ship.

There were about 20 IPT staffers, with rooms, meals, travel and pay. I'll guess that each one cost about $3,000 for the long week, for a total of $60,000. Include the referees.

Set production. I think at Orlando this could have easily been $20,000. Include the probably union labor to set it up.

There was the pre-tournament work and publicity. How many on staff? How much was the website to develop and maintain? What other direct costs? I think this could easily be $100,000.

There was the small matter of having 20 or so tables set up. Maybe that cost was put on the manufacturer.

I don't think that the last two events (Venetian and Grand Sierra) generated that much gambling revenue for the casinos.

Thanks Bob, so my $150k guesstimate was a bit out but it could be as low as double that. Still about a 1/10 of $3m which is often quoted, but of course that figure originated from KT/MS.

So they have probably easily pulled in enough money from qualifiers to cover all the expenses and nice salarys so far, agh but what about the prize money?

 

[Snapshot9]

I think you're crazy Craig ...

The Vegas and Reno events, IMO, were easily in the $700,000-$800,000
range each. The website development, and changes on the fly, with match updates, flags, picutes, formatting, probably ran a lot more than you have any idea of. Structuring an intregated system, with online history, archiving, and all of the other features takes a lot of hard work,
just as Pool does. Considering there was probably a team of 4 people with a manager directing the team, that alone is 5 people with probably an annual average salary of $80,000 each is $400,000,

I would say that large events like that, with all the bells and whistles probably run close to $1 million ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. There are expenses we do not even know that come into play.

 

[ScottW]

As a web developer by trade, I doubt the website end really cost them that much. They've probably got a coder on staff to handle the changes in format from the previous event - not a huge deal. (Now the initial setup for the NA Open event, that was some time spent.)

And then probably one person on-site, doing the photo edits/uploads, and the match updates. With the right tools set up beforehand (by the aforementioned coder, if he's got half a clue), doing match updates would be stupid easy. All they have to do is camp out by the scoreboard, and post results as they come in. I imagine they either had wi-fi or the venue ran some cabling to the scoring station - most venues these days have a decent pipe to the 'net, and charge obscene amounts of money for brief, limited access to it. :/

 

[Eieio59]

Let's just put it this way...... I think the rigging, labor and installation of the lights for the pool tables and tv arena was "easily" $150,000. Everything was hung from trusses and, let's see, the last time I used trusses for the lighting, the bill for the 4 days was over $5,000!!! Just one of those nice little expenses that no one thinks about and no one gives away for free.

My "conservative" estimate for the venue in Reno, just including 'on-site' tv production would definitely rise above $750,000.

Tammie

 

[Eieio59]

If I had then.

a) I wouldnt be admitting lack of knowledge and asking for help, and
b) This is more for the forums benifit than my own which is prob the best way to view the thread as there will be a wide range of expertise.

I have heard wildly changing opinions of costs, lets try and nail down what it would REALLY cost?

No need to get crappy with me. I asked those questions so that I could give more thorough answers. It would have helped me to know if you had attended one of those events, because I could reference certain things that you would have seen and give some pretty close estimates to the cost. Never mind.

Tammie

 

[jay helfert]

...Im curious I've heard a few players take the bait and say that it costs millions to hold an IPT event. I don't know the figures but I'd be VERY suprised if it cost more than about $150,000, very suprised. However I have to admit I clueless as to how much it would cost to book a casino for the week but my instinct tells me it wouldn't be that much given the amount of business the casino would bring in.

Given the number of knowledgable members on this forum I thought it would be useful to find out a rough cost of holding one of these events? Then we might be able to get a rough idea of the IPT finances to date.

The ballroom is free. It's called a four wall deal. The casino gives you the space and you must pay all production costs associated with the event. Very common in Vegas.

 

[Bob Jewett]

T...
* Catering at the venue space for the players
...

I had forgotten the Green Room. Figure about 1500 meals total at $20 per meal, assuming players and staff want to eat twice during the 12 hours they are in play.

 

[jay helfert]

The Vegas and Reno events, IMO, were easily in the $700,000-$800,000
range each. The website development, and changes on the fly, with match updates, flags, picutes, formatting, probably ran a lot more than you have any idea of. Structuring an intregated system, with online history, archiving, and all of the other features takes a lot of hard work,
just as Pool does. Considering there was probably a team of 4 people with a manager directing the team, that alone is 5 people with probably an annual average salary of $80,000 each is $400,000,

I would say that large events like that, with all the bells and whistles probably run close to $1 million ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. There are expenses we do not even know that come into play.

I wonder if these people are getting their paychecks on time.

 

[TheOne]

No need to get crappy with me. I asked those questions so that I could give more thorough answers. It would have helped me to know if you had attended one of those events, because I could reference certain things that you would have seen and give some pretty close estimates to the cost. Never mind.

Tammie

If you wasn't being crappy to me then Im sorry, it sure sounded like it though. This thread is not for me, its a discussion forum so prob best if you reference things that everyone can assoicate with.

Snapshot, I must be lol. btw I wasn't talking about the website, just the venue costs.

 

[TheOne]

Im not crazy afterall!

Good to see even the IPT admitted that it "only" cost $700k to hold BOTH the recent open events. I don't have my calculator but isn't that about 350k each?