how much weight?

[poolfire]

yep

Depends...If someone comes up to me and asks for a game and I beat them a few times and they all of a sudden want weight, I would remind them that they asked for that game...and use the line "get out with what you got in for"...

If I was the one that origonally asked for the game...I would have to adjust...but I would not go from zero gravity all the way to the 7 ball...

It looks as if the guy you played asked for the game, but on the second go round he lowerd the bet because he did not want to ask for weght, but was also not confident he was going to be able to win.

My hunch is....He is only asking for the 7 ball knowing that you will negotiate and offer him the 8-ball.

I would not offer him the 8 & the breaks...My negotiation response would have been Called 8....(takes away the break and or slop the 8 in) ...I probably would have "settled" on the wild 8 if he bocked at the called 8

Think of it as if you were the computer company Intel....You are not going to go from the quad 4 dual processer all the way up to the dual quad 8 quadrupel processor...you going to release just a little bump at a time...that way you get the other releases in between.

yes thats all hes gonna get, the call eight, i might throw in the snaps because his break is not that powerful, neither is mine.. so he knows i am not out to rape him, so with that spot we will work up or out to something else if needed.

 

[Shortside K]

never enough weight...

well people get a spot to make the game even if your playing somebody and losing everytime and dont ask for a spot you might be a little on the slower side or an ATM machine......pros spot other pros all the time.....if there were no spots in the game the gambling would become less and less because people are not going to keep donating to your charity

As we ALL know... the person giving up the weight almost NEVER gives enough weight to make it an even match.

Nobody wants to work hard for their $, so the person giving weight will always just give enough so that he is still confident that he will win fairly easily.

 

[Scottster]

Never give up the breaks. You both play at a level (whether you want to admit it or not) that giving up the breaks is too big of a spot.

Here is what I would suggest for you 2 at this time. Race to 9, Joe gets 3 on the wire. After 2 sets playing this way, if one of you wins both sets bump the game up or down one on the wire. If Joe loses the next 2 sets with 4 on the wire, Joe then gets the call 8 (unless you guys are playing 10 ball, then it would be the call 9 of course) and you both play for nine wins in the set.

Always play 2 sets with the agreed spot. Then adjust after that. I would never give more than 4 games on the wire. Once 4 games is reached then I would start to adjust with spotted balls.

From what I know of both of you, this matchup is more about competing and improving your games more than it is about the money.

 

[PoolBum]

I know when I used to hang out at Chelsea Billiards, we would get the full range of clients. There would be some regulars that were rather wealthy who loved to gamble on pool. The only thing is, if a better player wanted a stab at getting them in a game, they'd have to entice these players with lofty spots.

That is what I HATED about NYC. But I sure do miss Chelsea Billiards.

 

[Fatboy]

the score is 24-18, the 8 ball for a while.

 

[Scottster]

the score is 24-18, the 8 ball for a while.

Hence the three games on the wire in each set (18 + 6= 24). I know both these guys and I honestly believe the 3 games on the wire will be a good game for both of them.

 

[Fatboy]

Hence the three games on the wire in each set (18 + 6= 24). I know both these guys and I honestly believe the 3 games on the wire will be a good game for both of them.

3 on the wire to 9 is way more than the 8ball. because you have to win 9 to 5 which is almost winning 2 times(2 to 1) as many games not about 1/3 as the running total is now.

 

[AZE]

^^ correct. People WAY undervalue games on the wire.

BTW, the only spots I'm worried about are the ones I get. So no reply to OP.

 

[poolfire]

thanks guys

 

[poolfire]

ended up

I ended up given him the last three, 2 sets, $25/set, I got him 5-2 5-3 he said that he is retiring

 

[Black-Balled]

Why do people want weight? Isn't the point of gambling to see which person is better than the other? When did gambling turn into an equal opportunity sport?

In this case ,I believe it has been determined 'which person is better than the other'. Now they want to keep playing,

 

[av84fun]

I would also recommend the games-on-the-wire approach. If you're consistently beating him by 2-3 games, you can start off by giving him 1 on 7 (he needs to win 6 before you win 7).

Honestly, I think giving up the breaks really depends on the two players involved. I once played a guy who had a horrible break, flew off the table about 80% of the time. He said he wanted to gamble but wanted all the breaks. I agreed and thought, "Wow, I'm GETTING weight and he doesn't even know it!"

I like games on the wire because it's very easy to gauge. Giving up a ball spot can change your strategy. You can go 20 games in a row where it really didn't make a difference and then have 10 games in a row where the spotted ball gets combo'd in or something. However, if you know you're consistently beating the guy by x games, you can start by giving half that amount and see how it goes.

IF you want to be fair, games on the wire is a fine approach...but who wants to be fair when they gamble?? (-:

I would HEAVILY favor giving a ball spot vs. games on the wire.

Wny?

Because giving a ball MIGHT cost you X number of games while give games on the wire ACTUALLY costs you that many games.

You are right that the weight ball can hurt in streaks but you have to play the odds when you gamble and the odds are that the 7 Ball wouldn't make a difference in a match against a C player...which is what the OP's opponent sounds like...more than one rack in ten.

But just for sake of attempting to preserve an unfair advantage...which is what we all want in life...(-: I would start with the called 8 but wouldn't mind too much giving the called 7.

And for sure, I would make him play you for the original $50.00 to put the pressure on HIM...since you are betting his money in for 3 matches.

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

I would never give anyone, even a beginner the Breaks.

There is alot more to your scenario than just the scores of those sets. In order to determine if you can spot someone you have to be able to fully gauge their overall ability. Meaning you need to define their strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies. Once you gather that info then you can decide if your ability outweighs his. If you believe that your abilities exceed his than you have to determine by how much. that is where deciding a spot comes into play.

If you aren't much better than him, than I would be hesitant to give any spot at all. If you are that much better, start off small. Giving him the call last two or the call 8. If you beat him easily with those spots then you can consider a free spot ball. Remember Free spot balls are bigger on a bar table than on a big table.

Don't adjust because he wants to, adjust because you feel that you can still win after gathering the correct info.

Hope this helps

Giving the break to a beginner or even a C player is a NON ISSUE. They are not going to make the 9 on the snap more than 1 in 35 racks.

The beginner will run out a total of ZERO times and the C player will run out 1 in 15 of that. So you are going to get a shot in every match regardless of never breaking.

Giving the break to a banger is a hustle move.

Regards,
Jim

 

[ironman]

IF you want to be fair, games on the wire is a fine approach...but who wants to be fair when they gamble?? (-:

I would HEAVILY favor giving a ball spot vs. games on the wire.

Wny?

Because giving a ball MIGHT cost you X number of games while give games on the wire ACTUALLY costs you that many games.

You are right that the weight ball can hurt in streaks but you have to play the odds when you gamble and the odds are that the 7 Ball wouldn't make a difference in a match against a C player...which is what the OP's opponent sounds like...more than one rack in ten.

But just for sake of attempting to preserve an unfair advantage...which is what we all want in life...(-: I would start with the called 8 but wouldn't mind too much giving the called 7.

And for sure, I would make him play you for the original $50.00 to put the pressure on HIM...since you are betting his money in for 3 matches.

Regards,
Jim

I agree here. When you give them weight, make them bet. After all the one giving the weight probably wins about 80% of the time.

 

[av84fun]

Sorry, I don't mean to knock gambling. I just thought that with games of skill, weight wouldn't be an issue. Who really wants to say that, yeah, they beat that guy, but the guy gave him a spot? Doesn't that sound really weak?

No. Handicapping is as old as the hills. In horse racing, weight...ACTUAL weight...has been used for centuries.


But more to the point, the entire BCA/APA league structure is based on handicapping.

In gambling, without weight, the C player will never play the A player...unless quite drunk...so to gamble AT ALL, such matches need to be handicapped or they won't take place.

But you junior gamblers out there...BEWARE!

Getting weight proportional to the skill difference is a HUGE advantage to the better player!

Say you play a top pro and you are a B. If you think that pro is 80% better than you, then you would accept the 5 ball since he has to run to the 9 vs. you to the 5.

But in truth, the B player will run 6 balls MAYBE 50% and the pro is therefore virtually guaranteed to win half the racks.

Then figure that the pro will either run out or leave you safe and then run out leaving you no CHANCE to get to your weight ball at least half the time.

Therefore, the pro beats you 75% of the time. Add to that the fact that your weight ball will be pocketed by the pro on the break or early in his run once in a while leaving you with no weight at all...and you can see why the pros LOVE to give weight to bangers...especially in winner breaks formats...in which case...don't bother posting the cash on the light...just give it to your opponent in advance and consider it a fee for a lesson!!

For a spot to be meaningful it has to be that number of balls that you would run 90% of the time. So, if your AVERAGE run is 6 balls, then you need AT LEAST the 5 and probably the 4 to have any chance at all against a top player.

The ratios are less dramatic between, say Bs and Cs but the point is...keep track of not only your AVERAGE run per inning but the RANGE of balls run and figure you need a spot AT your average against a B or lower player and BELOW your average against an A or better.


(-:

Jim

 

[av84fun]

3 on the wire to 9 is way more than the 8ball. because you have to win 9 to 5 which is almost winning 2 times(2 to 1) as many games not about 1/3 as the running total is now.

RIGHT!!!!.........

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Why do people want weight? Isn't the point of gambling to see which person is better than the other? When did gambling turn into an equal opportunity sport?

I believe you're thinking of competing. The point of gambling is to win money and maybe to motivate both players, which works best when things are more or less even.

pj
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