How special Efren is

smashmouth said:
so if your life depended on it, how would you rank Earl, Efren, and Buddy in 9 ball in a long set money match?

and btw, as amazing as efren is, personality and charisma...uhh...not his strong suits
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I am a huge Efren fan, but 9 ball on his best day, would not compare to Earl or Buddy.

Efren's break was and probably still is awful. IMO, that alone would drop him below these guys.

Great but not in the top of 9 ball.

One pocket? The best of all time.

Ken
 
He is a Freak of Nature.. He doesn't jump balls, he doesn't have the BIG BREAK. Yet still I watched him torture all these players with these weapons.
 
would you have posted the video if you would have lost?...lol. "The Camera Guy Got Me".

I feakin love it...
 
Ken_4fun said:
I am a huge Efren fan, but 9 ball on his best day, would not compare to Earl or Buddy.

Efren's break was and probably still is awful. IMO, that alone would drop him below these guys.

Great but not in the top of 9 ball.

One pocket? The best of all time.

Ken
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Efren beat Earl race to 100 in Hong Kong I believe for the big money. That's how good he is even with a break that is not as strong as other top player.s I don't think Earl or Buddy would ever say that Efren is not a top player in Nine Ball.
 
Deuel is an awful one pocket player.

Where do you get this crap at?
You don't gamble, so no one can get in those pockets, but if you ever decide to, please let that "awful one pocket player" get deep and take some of that cheddar, or a few of those sticks you got.

At times when I read your posts, I think that all you do is collect sticks, never played the game in your life, let alone watched it, or even been on the road.



Ken_4fun said:
Deuel is an awful one pocket player. He shoots the wrong shot consistently. Watching him is a perfect example of a "shooter" playing a "mover".

Efren is the best one pocket player of all time, followed immediately by Ronnie Allen.....the list is way down before the next guy comes to my list.

If you are suggesting Efren is number 50, I would love to see the next 49 above him. :eek:

Ken
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Don't even bother arguing, his information and rationale is based on nothing from this planet.



overlord said:
Efren beat Earl race to 100 in Hong Kong I believe for the big money. That's how good he is even with a break that is not as strong as other top player.s I don't think Earl or Buddy would ever say that Efren is not a top player in Nine Ball.
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that match was interesting, the score suggested that Earl may have dominated in a slightly shorter match, for a guy so prone to self implosion I wouldn't like him in marathon match
 
smashmouth said:
so if your life depended on it, how would you rank Earl, Efren, and Buddy in 9 ball in a long set money match?

and btw, as amazing as efren is, personality and charisma...uhh...not his strong suits
Click to expand...

In THE money match of the history of winning, it appears Efren's done [the] most. Tally up the top three positions in tough competition over the tenure of their careers and I think the answer speaks for itself amongst those three. Hall was my absolute favorite player when I was learning position routes and logic of 9 ball. Efren get's careless which I think is a subconscious dismissal of the legitimacy of the TV game. Earl, though he may be almost as talented as Efren is even more temperamental than I am--and is subject to go on tilt with little to no provocation.

Mark Wilson surmised it impeccably--and probably typifies something almost every person has experienced if not behaviorally, and impulse to behave this way:

http://youtu.be/Fsb7rphIPtk?t=15m10s

A long money match will definitely include Earl going on tilt. Efren (in his prime) never wore down from being tired and never lost his composure. And if we mean in the last 15 years, as the pockets cinched up and became 4-1/4" ... I can't think of examples where I've seen buddy play on such equipment successfully (he may be able to, but I haven't witnessed it). Earl in that regard can pocket the balls with ANY kind of spin even on a 5x10 that was absolutely gaffed up. When Justin finally puts the TAR match of SVB vs. Earl on the 5x10 with flared pockets you'll see some ridiculous runouts on utterly fraudulent pockets.

I don't know about Efren's personality per se--I think other Filipinos would be better suited to describe his character, or even the aforementioned Mark Wilson. While I can easily think of examples that aid your point (he's never particularly friendly with me unless I'm gambling with him in some way) -- I can also say that I've never heard of him not signing anything upon request, agreeing to pictures, and of course, being a literal philanthropist. It's difficult for those of us who don't speak tagalog to be dismissive; but isn't that the american attitude that all other cultures owe us learning our language and social norms?

In keeping with his modesty, I think he feels insecure about his over all ability to express himself in English and shy's away from it.

I think one of the funniest things I've seen him do is when he's on "deal or no deal".

A friend of mine who's a top pool player said to me in private once, "I don't want to be friends with everyone in the pool hall. This is what I do for a living. If we're honest with ourselves, we're in there trying to win each other's money. You can't do that while you're their friends."
 
u12armresl said:
Deuel is an awful one pocket player.

Where do you get this crap at?
You don't gamble, so no one can get in those pockets, but if you ever decide to, please let that "awful one pocket player" get deep and take some of that cheddar, or a few of those sticks you got.

At times when I read your posts, I think that all you do is collect sticks, never played the game in your life, let alone watched it, or even been on the road.
Click to expand...

You haven't a clue.

You want to make yourself as a high roller gambler or an awesome road player. Blow smoke up somebody elses a$$.

I have interviewed practically every male pool player, written for various magazines, contributed to many different pool books. Maybe you are right, you are just such a "high rolling gambling hustling pool player" I should have realized. My error.

Green with jealousy is a bad color on you.

Ken
 
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overlord said:
Efren beat Earl race to 100 in Hong Kong I believe for the big money. That's how good he is even with a break that is not as strong as other top player.s I don't think Earl or Buddy would ever say that Efren is not a top player in Nine Ball.
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Efren also beat McCready when he came to US as Cesar Morales, when Keith was playing great.

Again, I am big fan of Efren, and he has won some great matches, playing 9 ball. His epic matches were great.

But day and day out, I would take Buddy or Earl. Most other folks would too.

The same goes for one pocket, Efren has been beat, yep. But day in and day out, I would take Efren.

Ken
 
My favorite Efren shot I haven't been able to find.

One-pocket...object ball is on the short rail (about a quarter inch off)...
.....around the middle diamond.
...the cue-ball is four inches away, straight in to the other guy's pocket.

It's a tough move ...the only safe seems to be merely a stalemate.

Efren tends to show his child-like curiosity in these situations....
...then he jacks up in 'grand masse' style, the cue-ball goes out about
6 inches, does the u-turn, comes back to brush the ball on the far side
....and leaves his opponent the same shot, into Efren's pocket.

I can't remember what the other guy did, but he did not try the same shot.

That's what I love about Efren's game....his curiosity.
 
Ken_4fun said:
Efren also beat McCready when he came to US as Cesar Morales, when Keith was playing great.

Again, I am big fan of Efren, and he has won some great matches, playing 9 ball. His epic matches were great.

But day and day out, I would take Buddy or Earl. Most other folks would too.

The same goes for one pocket, Efren has been beat, yep. But day in and day out, I would take Efren.

Ken
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Efren and Buddy in their prime...or anyone else -- on 4-1/4" pockets, race to 500 for a million. Lock em in a room for a month, Efren would steal the money. Especially on tight grippy cloth, where the veer complicates everything.

I'm a HUGE buddy fan. He was my first favorite -- but his hay day was on totally different equipment.

People said his break was weak...but that isn't always the case.
 
Truman: Do you know the pocket size for the Hong Kong Challenge Match?

That was great pool.
 
Without a doubt the most amazing session in pool is the session where Efren plays Jason Miller in the finals or semifinals in One Pocket.

Jason Miller was playing the best I have ever seen him play, he was pounding every top player, that was before he played Efren.

In a race to 3 Efren beat Jason in like 45 minutes in the most impressive one pocket session I have ever seen.

Other sessions or DVDs.

1. Skyler Woodword winning the bank ring game. It is especially great because the late Freddy the Beard is commentating. Freddy comments early in the match that Skyler has no chance against the champions. Freddy changes his tune by the end and says that Skyler is the best he had ever seen. "They basically don't understand how tough it is to bank like this". :D

2. Keith McCready, - if he gets rolling. Keith is like a college basketball player, once he feels it, gets in rhythm the balls are diving into holes. I have seen him play when he gets locked down, and never gets rolling. But when he gets to the table and gets going, he gets tougher and tougher.

3. Buddy Hall - Look at Accu-Stats, his cue ball control is freaky. IMO the best of his generation of cue ball control. He just doesn't get out of line.

4. Nick Varner - I really like to watch him play. His one pocket is top notch without a doubt.

Best of rolls....

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
Without a doubt the most amazing session in pool is the session where Efren plays Jason Miller in the finals or semifinals in One Pocket.

Jason Miller was playing the best I have ever seen him play, he was pounding every top player, that was before he played Efren.

In a race to 3 Efren beat Jason in like 45 minutes in the most impressive one pocket session I have ever seen.

Other sessions or DVDs.

1. Skyler Woodword winning the bank ring game. It is especially great because the late Freddy the Beard is commentating. Freddy comments early in the match that Skyler has no chance against the champions. Freddy changes his tune by the end and says that Skyler is the best he had ever seen. "They basically don't understand how tough it is to bank like this". :DFreddy made those comments because he didn't know that Bustamante and Woodward had agreed to split the 1st & 2nd place money before Busty broke the last game. He thought Woodward would fade under pressure but the pressure was removed. Freddy reevaluated his opinion of Woodward after learning of the split but he kept it relatively private. He had no knowledge of the split while doing the commentary.

Ken
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I think that as good as Efren played against Miller he played even better against Pagulayan in the semi-finals. Miller shot incorrect shots, Alex played very well and still had no chance. I think those two matches are the best anyone has ever played one-pocket and had it recorded.

ONB
 
Old Nine Baller said:
I think that as good as Efren played against Miller he played even better against Pagulayan in the semi-finals. Miller shot incorrect shots, Alex played very well and still had no chance. I think those two matches are the best anyone has ever played one-pocket and had it recorded.

ONB
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Agreed.

But ONB, Miller had been shooting so incredibly straight, that even if he shot the wrong shot, he made it.

Playing Efren, Jason NEVER had a shot. Doesn't matter how good you shoot, if you are locked up on ball.

Ken
 
Efren is special

You want to watch entertainment excitement and good shot making Earl Strickland love or hate him he brings the crowds in more than anybody else.
 
Ken_4fun said:
Without a doubt the most amazing session in pool is the session where Efren plays Jason Miller in the finals or semifinals in One Pocket.

Jason Miller was playing the best I have ever seen him play, he was pounding every top player, that was before he played Efren.

In a race to 3 Efren beat Jason in like 45 minutes in the most impressive one pocket session I have ever seen.

Other sessions or DVDs.

1. Skyler Woodword winning the bank ring game. It is especially great because the late Freddy the Beard is commentating. Freddy comments early in the match that Skyler has no chance against the champions. Freddy changes his tune by the end and says that Skyler is the best he had ever seen. "They basically don't understand how tough it is to bank like this". :D

2. Keith McCready, - if he gets rolling. Keith is like a college basketball player, once he feels it, gets in rhythm the balls are diving into holes. I have seen him play when he gets locked down, and never gets rolling. But when he gets to the table and gets going, he gets tougher and tougher.

3. Buddy Hall - Look at Accu-Stats, his cue ball control is freaky. IMO the best of his generation of cue ball control. He just doesn't get out of line.

4. Nick Varner - I really like to watch him play. His one pocket is top notch without a doubt.

Best of rolls....

Ken
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you re: McCready. He has genius ball speed, kicked great, and was a very intelligent player. He isn't going to waste a lot of time -- it's either his day or it's not.

I was watching him play Schmiddy when he was getting good at OP and KM would long rail bank an otherwise sellout shot...and I quote him. "Right up under the ball sack!"

I think I was in on that set ... we lost 1900 -- before he left the pool hall when we asked if we could play again tomorrow he goes, "This money's GONE. I'm off to go get a ___ and some ____."
 
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