How straight should a shaft be

Delaware Lar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to have a very good pool cue. After 20 years, I found that I could no longer get action on the cue ball. The diagnosis was a warped shaft. I sold the cue for a very large profit after subtracting $500.

I recently bought a high-end production cue from an online distributor. I find that the shaft has a 100th of an inch warp in the center.

So far, I talked to two cue maker's. One told me that shafts will naturally move, and that my shaft was playable. Another told me that players adapt to shafts that look like bananas.

My theory is that a shaft should be straight to.0001 nanometers.

Any opinions on how straight a shaft should be?
 
I'm not sure but if your shaft was at .0002 nanometers,I don't think it would be the reason you could "no longer get action on the cue ball."
 
Your shaft is off 1/100th of an inch over 29 inches, and you think that's unacceptable? Wow, you have some pretty high standards. The fact of the matter is very few shafts are *perfectly* straight. Many factors contribute to "imperfect" shafts: improperly made, natural movement of wood, humidity and temperature, how it's stored, how it's cleaned (Argh! Not the green scrubby!), etc.

Yes, in a perfect world, all shafts should be laser-straight, but we don't live in a perfect world. Some cue makers are much better at producing straight shafts that stay straight. No, I'm not saying you have to accept warped shafts cuz that's life. But 1/100th of an inch?!? C'mon man, that's pretty freaking straight!

Your warped shaft was the reason you could no longer get action on the cue ball? Really? What about a new tip? Maybe operator error was involved? I've had my butt kicked by guys playing with $50 K-Mart cues, so I don't think an infinitesimal "warp" is going to kill your game.
 
I don't think I have ever seen a perfect shaft. If the tip and collar do not leave the surface when rolled, and there is only a tiny change in the middle, it's not an issue at all. How many other shafts have you checked? How many were less or more straighter than yours?
 
Hold the shaft to your eye and look down it from butt to tip. You'll need to turn yourself to where the ambient light makes a white line down the top.
Slowly rotate the shaft 360 degrees. If a bend shows up in that white line then your shaft is warped, which is unacceptable in my book.
Checking the run out on a lathe is okay for the butt of the cue, but is probably asking too much of the shaft. Use the sight method. :smile:
 
I used to have a very good pool cue. After 20 years, I found that I could no longer get action on the cue ball. The diagnosis was a warped shaft. I sold the cue for a very large profit after subtracting $500.

I recently bought a high-end production cue from an online distributor. I find that the shaft has a 100th of an inch warp in the center.

So far, I talked to two cue maker's. One told me that shafts will naturally move, and that my shaft was playable. Another told me that players adapt to shafts that look like bananas.

My theory is that a shaft should be straight to.0001 nanometers.

Any opinions on how straight a shaft should be?

If it's more than two atoms off, I'd demand my money back and throw that thing on the firewood stack. :rolleyes:
 
I've had my butt kicked by guys playing with $50 K-Mart cues, so I don't think an infinitesimal "warp" is going to kill your game.

Bonnie Plowman (multi time Canadian 8 ball champion) told me she won all but 1 of her championships with a $50 cuetech cue. In fact that was all she ever had until Schon made a one of a kind cue for her then girlfriend and she didn't like it so she gave it to Bonnie. Idk if she still has it or not.
 
Its the Indian, not the arrow. Most pro-taper shafts I've seen have some wobble, but as long as the tip doesn't leave the table.
 
if those are your standards perhaps you would prefer graphite shafts.. they stay exactly the same for their entire life...

myself I prefer wood..and I have realistic expectations of wood...
 
I guess I'm old school. I roll the cue on a table and crouch down and look underneath the taper. If I don't see a changing gap...the cues straight. Honestly, I never even rolled the butt and the shaft seperately until the last few years. That's something new to me, but I learned something !
 
My personal rule of thumb is that when I, who no longer am eagle-eyed like I used to be in my youth, can see a taper roll, then there is a taper roll. And I much prefer to play with a cue that's as straight as humanly possible. It may detract from one's confidence in the cue if it's not. If it were very, very warped, it's feasible one will get less action on the cue ball, but no one I know shoots with a cue that's that crooked. Most importantly, however, the one cue maker told you the truth - one can play with a warped cue. He forgot to mention it's an annoying habit to constantly rotate it in one's grip hand, which is what players tend to do when they see wavering of the shaft during their practice strokes. Ironically, one wouldn't need to hold a warped cue in the "correct" position to hit the cue ball where one intends to, as well as the target one's aiming at, everything else being equal (= using a straight stroke). Also, one could mark the shaft with a felt marker, I know people who've done that.

But there's something else: why exactly is it we pay top dollar for a custom cue and shafts? It's simply not true that shafts from naturally dried, well-seasoned, slow-turned/tapered high quality maple "move"/warp. The modern-age, whitish, kiln-dried stuff may. Genuine old-growth never did. That second guy you spoke to forgot to tell you that - or maybe he doesn't even know?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
As long as the shaft bends the object ball into the pocket... you are ok. LOL.

Actually my cue is wobbling a bit now but still plays well, I think it is in the joint, the source of wobble.
 
I used to have a very good pool cue. After 20 years, I found that I could no longer get action on the cue ball. The diagnosis was a warped shaft. I sold the cue for a very large profit after subtracting $500.

I recently bought a high-end production cue from an online distributor. I find that the shaft has a 100th of an inch warp in the center.

So far, I talked to two cue maker's. One told me that shafts will naturally move, and that my shaft was playable. Another told me that players adapt to shafts that look like bananas.

My theory is that a shaft should be straight to.0001 nanometers.

Any opinions on how straight a shaft should be?

.0001 nanometers equals 3.937007874e-12 inches. You do realize that that is way straighter than your table is level, don't you? You might be better off just giving it to some girl. From my experience, they prefer somewhat crooked shafts over straight ones anyways. :wink:
 
acousticsguru: I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few points.

First, I find it odd this thread is in the Main Forum, and not in the Ask the Cuemaker Forum. Secondly, when a cuemaker gives his two cents worth, you dismiss his information, and substitute your pool playing experience. That's like asking a car mechanic why your car back-fires, but then ignore his information because you've been driving cars all your life.

I'm not claiming to be the best cuemaker in the world, but I know a fair amount about the craft. One of the few things I know for sure is that wood *DOES* move. Oddly enough, this isn't just restricted to the world of pool cues. Talk to *ANYONE* that works with wood (furniture makers, cabinet makers, carpenters, instrument makers, etc.) and they'll tell you the same thing: Wood, no matter what species, moves. *PERIOD*.

Wood moves more the thinner it gets. Coincidentally, shafts are the skinniest part of the whole cue. And, shafts are typically not clear coated so the open grains are much more susceptible to changes in humidity and temperature.

In no way was I trying to say that you should simply accept warped shafts. However, I was trying to point out there are far more reasons why shafts warp other than just the cuemaker doing a sloppy job. *ASSUMING* the cuemaker did a good job making a perfectly straight shaft, the customer can do many things to negatively effect the cue's straightness.

While I, too, believe that a laser-straight shaft is best, there has to be *SOME* amount of acceptable warpage in a shaft. How much is, of course, subjective. It's my suggestion that 1/100th of an inch is well within the limits of acceptability.

Finally, even before I made pool cues, I just never understood players that worried about the tiniest little details that just don't matter. You turn your cue because you can see the warp in your shaft as you're stroking? Really?!? Your stroke is so laser perfect that you can detect that slight imperfection. And that imperfection gets into your head, damaging your confidence, thereby throwing your whole game off? I'm guessing there's a bit more wrong with your game than your warped shaft.
 
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My theory is that a shaft should be straight to.0001 nanometers.


What month of the year? At what temperature and humidity? What time of day?

Wood moves with environmental changes. All wood does. No cue maker has ever mad a cue that is not subject to this.






.
 
Thanks all for this valuable dialogue. Even the funny stuff. I didn't know there was a Ask the Cuemaker Forum. I'm glad I posted this on the main forum. The cuemakers may have a bias on "The modern-age, whitish, kiln-dried stuff vs the (expensive) genuine old-growth (that just may not move as much)."

I want to know more... like a two day seminar. If I'm being too nit-picky, that's only because that's the way I am.

I did feel that I got a corrective emotional experience from this thread. Max is my mentor. If he can play with a wobble then so can I.
 
acousticsguru: I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few points.

I knew before I even typed one word of what I said that the person contradicting me would be a cue maker. Mind you, we players are not the enemy!

Wood, no matter what species, moves. *PERIOD*.

You're not addressing my principal argument: that it's a matter of quality of the wood, the seasoning, as well as turning the wood down slowly. On purpose? Since you are a cue maker, you should know best what I'm referring to. And yes, you may feel free to check out any of my decades to 150+ year-old stuff. No wonder Snooker pro Ally Carter bought a centuries-old cue (even if Snooker cues are made from ash and not maple). Not only did the wood available back then have more growth rings per inch (and thus is more resistant to thumping), it was handled and machined more slowly (Ronnie Powell of QuePerfect for example insists one should never make cuts of .010, but only .005 in one pass, then let shaft dowels rest for three weeks at least, especially also when sanding and thus heating shaft wood). In order to make the old stuff warp you had to abuse it, that is, either heat it, wet it or sand it:

Wood moves more the thinner it gets. Coincidentally, shafts are the skinniest part of the whole cue. And, shafts are typically not clear coated so the open grains are much more susceptible to changes in humidity and temperature.

It's true that our skin is ever so slightly abrasive, even more so the chalk that may come between it and the shaft using it, but tell me about your experience measuring how much thinner a shaft gets through use only (of course I could tell you - but as you point out, I'm just another player/coach/instructor). On the other hand the mixture of chalk and hand oil protects the wood better than any coat ever could. Jerry Franklin once pointed that out to me. Mike Lambros says the same. It's partly a matter of not sanding the cue, nor cleaning it with anything abrasive. I tell all my students that they shouldn't be surprised to see their shafts warp if they use anything abrasive on them - usually, they're not even aware the products they use are.

In no way was I trying to say that you should simply accept warped shafts. However, I was trying to point out there are far more reasons why shafts warp other than just the cuemaker doing a sloppy job. *ASSUMING* the cuemaker did a good job making a perfectly straight shaft, the customer can do many things to negatively effect the cue's straightness.

Define "sloppy"! What I said was referring to 21st century availability of shaft wood. And yes, we agree the customer (leaving the cue in the trunk of his car in summer/winter, using sandpaper, even micro-burnishing films, or abrasive cleaning solutions, or ones that contain water raising the grain etc., or worst of all indeed, reaching an age of 200+ years wearing the poor thing out playing for 18 hours every day) may be the culprit.

While I, too, believe that a laser-straight shaft is best, there has to be *SOME* amount of acceptable warpage in a shaft. How much is, of course, subjective. It's my suggestion that 1/100th of an inch is well within the limits of acceptability.

I agree, unless the person were able to see the wavering during their practice strokes and stroke. If it's merely a matter of rolling the cue on a flat surface (= a pool table is rarely flat enough for this purpose), or spin it in a lathe to check for "eye run-out" as e.g. Dave Barenbrugge calls it, and losing confidence in the cue because of what one "knows" rather than perceives and is constantly aware of, the player IMHO doesn't need a new cue/shaft but instruction/coaching. Personally, I've run three digits with a cue that isn't straight, so…

Finally, even before I made pool cues, I just never understood players that worried about the tiniest little details that just don't matter. You turn your cue because you can see the warp in your shaft as you're stroking? Really?!? Your stroke is so laser perfect that you can detect that slight imperfection. And that imperfection gets into your head, damaging your confidence, thereby throwing your whole game off? I'm guessing there's a bit more wrong with your game than your warped shaft.

Details do matter! Details are what have made me a better player and teacher at this game. Feel free to believe the devil is in the details, but think twice before you suggest this must be true for others.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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The way I see it, if anything about your cue bothers you... anything at all... it will have an affect on your game, even if that affect is 100% mental. You can't shoot with a cue that bothers you in any way, even if it's something meaningless like the color.

If you have a choice and the money, get a stick that's as straight as you like. For me that just means I can't see a wobble when I roll it on the table. But if you can see or feel that 'nanometer' warp, then trade it in.
 
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