how to calculate a 5 rail billiard

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bbb

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i read on a blog you should decide to make a billiard via 3 rails OR 5 rails
not both
so how do you calculate a 5 rail billiard ?
what positions are preferable to consider shooting it??
or does anyone have a chart of the 4 th to 5 th rail tracks
thanks
 
bbb said:
i read on a blog you should decide to make a billiard via 3 rails OR 5 rails
not both
so how do you calculate a 5 rail billiard ?
what positions are preferable to consider shooting it??
or does anyone have a chart of the 4 th to 5 th rail tracks
thanks
Click to expand...

I am far from an expert (more like a novice) so take what I say with a big block of salt.

For me it depends on the target ball position. As I look at the around the table shot I try to think about how the cue ball will approach that ball. If the target ball is a little ways up the long rail from the corner then I can play it short, directly on the target ball, or I can play it long, hitting the short rail (and possibly the long rail) at the end of the shot before scoring. Which I pick will depend on how the angle from the cue ball to the object ball is and whether that lends itself more to playing the shot a little long or playing it short. Better players than I will also take into account the likelihood of kisses along either path.

Was the blog Bert van Manen?
 
beneath_the_sur said:
How about a link to this blog?
Click to expand...

KissedOut said:
I am far from an expert (more like a novice) so take what I say with a big block of salt.

For me it depends on the target ball position. As I look at the around the table shot I try to think about how the cue ball will approach that ball. If the target ball is a little ways up the long rail from the corner then I can play it short, directly on the target ball, or I can play it long, hitting the short rail (and possibly the long rail) at the end of the shot before scoring. Which I pick will depend on how the angle from the cue ball to the object ball is and whether that lends itself more to playing the shot a little long or playing it short. Better players than I will also take into account the likelihood of kisses along either path.

Was the blog Bert van Manen?
Click to expand...

i dont remeber where i read it
i tried some searches and couldnt find it
sorry guys
kissed out your explanation of trying to decide how to make the billiard is helpfull
this is what i was hoping more of the members would discuss
thanks for the reply...:thumbup:
 
as for the system for 5 rails its basically corner to corner with adjustments
ie one diamond from left corner on short rail to one diamond above diagonal corner on right side rail
thanks to jim shovak for the diagram

5 rail track mother position.jpg
 
beneath_the_sur said:
so then where does the picking of 3 or 5 rails come into play?

i can only think of top players would be able to make that shot in 3 rails

long long long
Click to expand...

you are confusing 2 separate issues because of the way i posted my thread
the 5 rail system i posted is a 5 rail system.....period end of story
its there for anyone who can benefit
the issue of going 3 or 5 rails for certain positions
rather than going for 3 and getting lucky to get it in 5
IS WHY I STARTED THIS THREAD
.................
there has been 147 views of this thread
NO ONE HAS ANY OPINION WHETHER THIS CORRECT OR NOT OR WHEN TO USE IT
one newbie gave his opinion
you guys are pathetic
you want to try to promote 3 cushion but you wont help someone who wants to learn
hope you all enjoy who is playing in what tournament
what cue a tall player should use
i understand
i may not get any usefull responses now
but i hope you can understand my frustration
.....
IS THERE NO ONE WHO CAN GIVE AN EXPERIENCED OPINION???
 
Last edited:
beneath the sur
you are a good guy
its late at night for me
i will answer your posts in the morning
good luck with your game
i wish you many billiards to come
:)
larry
 
bbb said:
i read on a blog you should decide to make a billiard via 3 rails OR 5 rails
not both
so how do you calculate a 5 rail billiard ?
what positions are preferable to consider shooting it??
or does anyone have a chart of the 4 th to 5 th rail tracks
thanks
Click to expand...

"decide to make a billiard via 3 rails OR 5 rails"
Of course you should decide which shot to shoot.

Calculating 5 rails is the same as 3 rails only you're calculating to the 4th cushion rather than ball 2.

IMO the blog should have said, as a rule of thumb to calculate for 4 or 5 rails rather than 3 rails when possible.
Of course there's always exceptions. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about simple Naturals.
 
beneath_the_sur said:
Can you explain naturals for me
I've heard this a lot and don't know what exactly you all mean when you use this term
Click to expand...

OK Basically its the simple shots. The layups, cookies, ducks, ......

How about ball 2 in the corner and BIG. Ball 1 1/2 Diamond from the long rail. CB 1/2 diamond from the long rail between the 2 balls.

Hit ball 1 so CB goes to the long then it NATURALLY follows the desired pattern.
 
beneath_the_sur said:
Can you explain naturals for me
I've heard this a lot and don't know what exactly you all mean when you use this term
Click to expand...

I assume from this that you have not read Robert Byrne's books. I think he explains "naturals" there. He also goes into when you want to keep an eye out for the 3-rail/5-rail option. I think he also points out that on some shots, you have to choose one or the other.
 
beneath_the_sur said:
I seem to recall though in an pm from you before, wish I hadn't deleted it now,

That went something along the lines of the more and more you see of systems the more they just don't work,
Or am I remembering that wrong

It was right after I posted the treasure trove of systems page


I'm a feel player after a year of playing
Perhaps if I had more time to get with a few guys I've met in the other side of town I'd be more of a system guy

But all I know is what I can see, the effect of the hit on the balls and how much English makes it take a 60 or 90 angle after first contact
Click to expand...

i dont want to digress and hijack my own thread regarding systems vs feel
its been discussed in many other threads
i will say this though
why have to spend all the hours learning how the cue ball goes around the table and reinvent the wheel
when i think systems show you how the ball gets around the table from various positions and with various spins right away and shortens the learning curve
and gives you a template/guideline to start with
yes every table doesnt play true to "the numbers" (cloth /rails etc)
so you have to adjust..ie use feel which you develop with the hours of practice you have to invest to get as good as you can be
but to answer your post i dont think i would ever say systems dont work because i use them all the time in kicking out of safeties and for my cue ball path (remember i play pool ..:embarrassed2:but am a student of billiards and there is a 3c table 45 minutes from me that i am starting to go down to play on...:smile:)
what i might have said is that as i am getting more hours on the table my feel is improving so if the system doesnt seem quite right i can use my feel to tweak it
we can discuss feel vs system via pm if you wish
 
3kushn said:
"decide to make a billiard via 3 rails OR 5 rails"
Of course you should decide which shot to shoot.

Calculating 5 rails is the same as 3 rails only you're calculating to the 4th cushion rather than ball 2.

IMO the blog should have said, as a rule of thumb to calculate for 4 or 5 rails rather than 3 rails when possible.
Of course there's always exceptions. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about simple Naturals.
Click to expand...

FINALLY ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE SHARED
THANK YOU SO MUCH
:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume from this that you have not read Robert Byrne's books. I think he explains "naturals" there. He also goes into when you want to keep an eye out for the 3-rail/5-rail option. I think he also points out that on some shots, you have to choose one or the other.
Click to expand...

you stimulated me to go to byrnes book
from my very breif perusal this am
he has 2 shots where he explains the 5 railer is easier than the 3 railer
 
second pic
he says you can go 3 rails staying in the square aiming at the letter along the bottom side rail
but 5 rails is easier
byrne 5 rail 2.jpg
 
i hope the above is helpfull to someone
it is for me
again 3kushn your approach to 5 railers was also helpfull
 
3kushn said:
OK Basically its the simple shots. The layups, cookies, ducks, ......

How about ball 2 in the corner and BIG. Ball 1 1/2 Diamond from the long rail. CB 1/2 diamond from the long rail between the 2 balls.

Hit ball 1 so CB goes to the long then it NATURALLY follows the desired pattern.
Click to expand...

ok i got it

yes im pretty ok with making those easy shots:wink:
 
bbb said:
as for the system for 5 rails its basically corner to corner with adjustments
ie one diamond from left corner on short rail to one diamond above diagonal corner on right side rail
thanks to jim shovak for the diagram
Click to expand...

That is one of the standard shots players will use when they warm up for a match in order to judge how the table is playing. While the system presents an ideal, the reality is that the lines vary from table to table and even change during a long match.

There is a Turkisk guy named Tuzul who has come out with a system in which you start by shooting certain calibrating shots to get an adjustment factor for the table conditions and then his system builds that adjustment into the calculations.

https://store.kozoom.com/uk/carom_billiards/livre-tuzul-billiard-systems.html
 
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