How to Curve an Object Ball
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
Thank you for pointing out the typo. I've fixed it in both the post and on the resource page.
Typical banger stroke. Slightly elevated and hard.
I put Dr. Dave’s info to test today, it works.
Amazing shot. It would be a great proposition if you could master it.
It looks like the OB bounces three times. While it is in the air it goes straight (viewed from above) but at each landing it suddenly changes direction. The path is not a curve but a sequence of straight-line paths until the OB settles down on the cloth. This effect can also be seen in jump follow/draw shots.
Just noticed this. Actually not at all like those shots. The angle I mean is well into obtuse. I can only guess at the dynamics.
If you can find or record a video, please post a link so we can see what you're talking about.
I'll go practice the stroke and picturate the layout. Couple days maybe. Meanwhile, set it up to carom - maybe a ball outside a pocket. Place the cueball on an impossibly obtuse line (20 degrees off tangent say) and work with it. Trust me; it bangs in and probably works with a finesse jump stroke although I've not tried that.
I have always considered and talented into consideration the curve of the object ball when shooting cut shots with left and right cue ball spin.
It is not the sidespin that causes OB swerve, it is top or bottom spin, and the effect really isn't large enough to be of any practical use. Even with a chalk mark added to the ball contact point, it is still difficult to succeed on the challenge shot. Now, sidespin definitely affects throw, but that is a different matter. For videos and more info dealing with OB throw, turn, and swerve, see:
Oh!
I've read your book (very good work, by the way!) but hadn't been through all the online materials.
But that video really clears it up. The movement wasn't what I imagined, but it makes sense now.
Thank you.
No chance at mastering that one. lol. Probably 1/100 or less even if you are trying to do it on purpose. Maybe Florian has the dedication to get it on video or something. haha
I suppose the axis of spin video shows that some things can be communicated better in different forms. I like a book if I'm going to really try to learn something in depth, but I wonder if it's different for millennials, who have grown up reading from a screen.
The real test is to do the shot in both directions. Table roll-off can help with that (although, an unbalanced ball can if you change its orientation).
Alright, I've been thinking about this proposition on and off, and I have a theory.
I don't have access to the pool/snooker equipment to test this theory, and haven't started to think about improvising a tripod and filming, so I'm just going to put this out in theory form in case anyone else can test it.
It's accepted that, on a table with a heavy nap, if you shoot against the nap, slowly, with English, the ball will turn in the direction of the English. This is understood to happen even if your cue were exactly level (which it generally isn't because of the rails). But the effect is small.
So shooting against the nap (fairly straight up-table, to avoid the ordinary curve the nap puts on the ball), using cut-induced and transferred (gearing) English on the OB, shooting slowly to maximize the effect, it should be possible to curve the OB.
Optimal (real-life/normal) conditions for recreating this curve with the object ball would be:
A heavy nap on the cloth
Fairly dirty balls
Large pockets (in which you could make a ball using a small curve)
So fairly common conditions at venues that aren't trying hard to provide nice equipment.
Without a lot of testing, I don't know how much curve could be achieved, but Freddy Bentivenga talks about similar effects in Banking with the Beard (photos from the book below) and suggests 1/8 to 1/4 ball as a general rule of thumb for long shots, for both OB and CB (presumably on 'average' equipment).
In Bob's proposition shot, I'm not sure 1/4 ball would be enough to pocket the ball, but the spin would be pocket-side, so if you got into the facing you'd have a good chance of the ball dropping.
The first shot I've included from Freddy's book is with the nap, and he says that a shot in the direction of the nap curves away from the spin. I wasn't aware of this effect before reading his book and haven't been able to experiment with it yet, but he doesn't have a perfect example shooting against the nap, so I've included this shot as support for the principle.
The second shot from Freddy's book is again with the nap, but otherwise almost mirrors Bob's proposition. TBH I'm surprised at the direction of curve he shows because of principles he's set out earlier, so I'm not sure whether there's a mistake in this one.
Finally, if the method I've suggested works, the tiny effect and very specific circumstances in which it would be useful (plus the level of ability needed to make use of the effect) probably do more to support than refute Bob's apparent original point that OB curve induced by the CB is generally a nonsense, for most players.
I don't have access to the pool/snooker equipment to test this theory, and haven't started to think about improvising a tripod and filming, so I'm just going to put this out in theory form in case anyone else can test it.
It's accepted that, on a table with a heavy nap, if you shoot against the nap, slowly, with English, the ball will turn in the direction of the English. This is understood to happen even if your cue were exactly level (which it generally isn't because of the rails). But the effect is small.
So shooting against the nap (fairly straight up-table, to avoid the ordinary curve the nap puts on the ball), using cut-induced and transferred (gearing) English on the OB, shooting slowly to maximize the effect, it should be possible to curve the OB.
Optimal (real-life/normal) conditions for recreating this curve with the object ball would be:
A heavy nap on the cloth
Fairly dirty balls
Large pockets (in which you could make a ball using a small curve)
So fairly common conditions at venues that aren't trying hard to provide nice equipment.
Without a lot of testing, I don't know how much curve could be achieved, but Freddy Bentivenga talks about similar effects in Banking with the Beard (photos from the book below) and suggests 1/8 to 1/4 ball as a general rule of thumb for long shots, for both OB and CB (presumably on 'average' equipment).
In Bob's proposition shot, I'm not sure 1/4 ball would be enough to pocket the ball, but the spin would be pocket-side, so if you got into the facing you'd have a good chance of the ball dropping.
The first shot I've included from Freddy's book is with the nap, and he says that a shot in the direction of the nap curves away from the spin. I wasn't aware of this effect before reading his book and haven't been able to experiment with it yet, but he doesn't have a perfect example shooting against the nap, so I've included this shot as support for the principle.
The second shot from Freddy's book is again with the nap, but otherwise almost mirrors Bob's proposition. TBH I'm surprised at the direction of curve he shows because of principles he's set out earlier, so I'm not sure whether there's a mistake in this one.
Finally, if the method I've suggested works, the tiny effect and very specific circumstances in which it would be useful (plus the level of ability needed to make use of the effect) probably do more to support than refute Bob's apparent original point that OB curve induced by the CB is generally a nonsense, for most players.
Directional nappy cloth is mostly a thing of the past. I have never seen nap ball turning effects on modern pool-table cloth. FYI, the last video on the OB swerve and turn resource page shows a demonstration of ball turn on a directional-nap snooker table.
Thanks, I'll take a look.
Freddy argues nap effects happen, to a lesser extent, even on modern cloths. Although here in the UK, you still see napped cloths on snooker tables and some pool tables.