How to force yourself not to grip the cue tightly.

Great!

Always great to get out of a trap and to escape with tactful skin, even better!(can you tell I have been talking to Smorg again :D )

Hu


JoeyA said:
I like that one and I forget to use it.

Last night before a match, I tried Pat's suggestion (if I read it right), I had difficulty applying pressure to the sides of the cue and still making the shot and getting shape. It was unusual for me anyway. I escaped a trap last night and got out with my skin in tact. :p
JoeyA
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av84fun said:
I disagree. The "tip" I cited was from the head pro of the Chicago Golf Club...one of the most prestigious in the country and either the first 9 or 18 hole golf course in America.

Sam Snead said, "Hold the club as if you had a little baby bird in your hand."

Possibly, you would disagree with Snead.

This not being a golf forum so I didn't get into any particular detail about the GOLF TIP...I was just presenting an analogy. But as you may or may not know, Davis Love Jr. is generally considered to be one of the greatest teachers of all time.

Davis said that "To hit high pitches, grip the club softly--I'd recommend a 2 or 3 on a 10-point scale, 10 being the firmest. This allows the club to release freely and adds loft as it slides under the ball through impact."

As it happens, the drill I was trained on involved an 8 iron not a long iron or driver.

But in general if you google "grip pressure" you will find that the vast majority of tips you find will recommended a grip pressure of between 4-5 on a scale of 10. With only half your potential grip force applied, if you can't forcefully SNATCH the club out of a typical golfer's hand then either they are gripping WAY too tightly or you are a weakling. (I mean "you" in the general sense...not you personally).

But again, this is not a golf forum. If you can't snatch a POOL CUE out of the players grip hand then his/her grip pressure is MASSIVELY too tight.



Regards,

Jim
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Nope I would not disagree with Snead.....But I also follow the entire intent of his comment, not just the selected verbiage that you have chosen.

I believe goes on to state something to the effect that you need to hold the bird to ensure that it does not fly away either...

His complete intent is that although you don't want a death (to the bird) grip you want enough of a grip to make sure you have complete control of the club.

At any rate...If my reading is correct...I was not the one that brought up the Golf analogy... I believe you brought it up and that JoeyA made a more accurate statement in that the right hand grip that has "less" grip pressure than the left would be more closely matched to that of a pool grip......(I probably should have just left it at that)

I was only trying to eliminate any potential confusion that might have been caused by others that frequent this board that may be both Golfers and Pool players and read your post and think to themselves that...Oh my left hand golf grip pressure is what I should use on my pool grip.....(I would say no to using the left hand grip pressure...more the right hand grip pressure..of a golf grip...to estimate the pressure on a pool cue grip)

I am in TOTAL agreement with you on a relaxed grip pressure..I am in total disagreement on the snatching or jerking away a club or cue...In both Golf and Pool that Club or Cue is an extension of my left arm...(I play pool left handed BTW) .....I am of the belief that I am going to always be the one in complete control of my left arm at all times....

Now for pool it could be a little different because you never come accross any "high impact" situations...(deep rough)....but I still want just enough grip pressure that I know that I am in complete controle of my cue.....(I tend to think that even slip stroke players are still doing it in such a way that they are in controle of the cue)

I won't argue your name dropping...they are very respected professionals...and the course you play on is very nice as well...I am happy for you..You sound like a successful individual...

Unfortunatley...I am stuck in Arizona.....so I am kind of limited when it comes to nice golf courses or big name professionals......;)
 
Light Grip

Da Poet said:
Scott Lee recommended to me to grip the cue with just the thumb, index and middle finger and leave the other fingers relaxed. It allows more freedom on the follow through and I can't imagine having a problem gripping too tight.

Good luck!
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This is exactly the way i've held my cue all my life, and it is defenitly a loose style grip!...my palm never touches the cue butt while stroking.

Da Poet got it right, so Joey A , you may try this style of grip.



David Harcrow
 
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BRKNRUN said:
Nope I would not disagree with Snead.....But I also follow the entire intent of his comment, not just the selected verbiage that you have chosen.

I believe goes on to state something to the effect that you need to hold the bird to ensure that it does not fly away either...

His complete intent is that although you don't want a death (to the bird) grip you want enough of a grip to make sure you have complete control of the club.

At any rate...If my reading is correct...I was not the one that brought up the Golf analogy... I believe you brought it up and that JoeyA made a more accurate statement in that the right hand grip that has "less" grip pressure than the left would be more closely matched to that of a pool grip......(I probably should have just left it at that)

I was only trying to eliminate any potential confusion that might have been caused by others that frequent this board that may be both Golfers and Pool players and read your post and think to themselves that...Oh my left hand golf grip pressure is what I should use on my pool grip.....(I would say no to using the left hand grip pressure...more the right hand grip pressure..of a golf grip...to estimate the pressure on a pool cue grip)

I am in TOTAL agreement with you on a relaxed grip pressure..I am in total disagreement on the snatching or jerking away a club or cue...In both Golf and Pool that Club or Cue is an extension of my left arm...(I play pool left handed BTW) .....I am of the belief that I am going to always be the one in complete control of my left arm at all times....

Now for pool it could be a little different because you never come accross any "high impact" situations...(deep rough)....but I still want just enough grip pressure that I know that I am in complete controle of my cue.....(I tend to think that even slip stroke players are still doing it in such a way that they are in controle of the cue)

I won't argue your name dropping...they are very respected professionals...and the course you play on is very nice as well...I am happy for you..You sound like a successful individual...

Unfortunatley...I am stuck in Arizona.....so I am kind of limited when it comes to nice golf courses or big name professionals......;)
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I'm not aware of Snead having said anything about releasing the bird.

I met Slammin' Sammy about 10 years ago at the Greenbriar and have in my hand a copy of his FANTASTIC autobiography...The Education of a Golfer which personally autographed "To Jimmy...Sam Snead."

It is a prized possession.

Remarkably, on page 27, he wrote as follows..."I was a grabber at first; then I relaxed to the grip the stick with about the pressure you put on a BILLIARD CUE." (emphasis added).

Obviously, anyone holding a pool cue so tightly that it could not be "snatched" out of the butt hand grip is gripping WAY too tightly.

So, to the extent that anyone is willing to consider Snead as an authority on golf, then my original post stands as written.

For clarity, I am a right handed pool player and never suggested that I was referring to BRIDGE the "grip pressure" that was the subject of this thread.

And I assume you mean "stroke slip" not "slip stroke" which are similar but a slip stroke has nothing to do with grip pressure on the forward stroke.

Regards,
Jim
 
This is from Essential Pool by Cranfield and Moy, p. 43:

Keeping the rear arm, hand and wrist relaxed and loose are keys to a smooth stroke. In tense moments, this is not always easy. Nerves and adrenaline can sometimes make a player with a normally sound stroke deliver an awful example of a stroke--stiff, awkward, and uneven. A good way to check whether your body is relaxed enough to deliver a smooth stroke is to silently ask yourself if you can feel the weight of the cue stick pulling downward on the fingers of your rear hand, wrist, and arm. If the answer is "yes," then take your practice strokes (in which the cue tip approaches but does not touch the ball), and let fly. If the answer is "no," jiggle your rear hand until it loosens up and becomes sensitive to the weight of the cue stick. Make sure you feel the heft of the cue stick; then proceed with your practice strokes and the shot itself.
 
acedotcom said:
This is from Essential Pool by Cranfield and Moy, p. 43:

Keeping the rear arm, hand and wrist relaxed and loose are keys to a smooth stroke. In tense moments, this is not always easy. Nerves and adrenaline can sometimes make a player with a normally sound stroke deliver an awful example of a stroke--stiff, awkward, and uneven. A good way to check whether your body is relaxed enough to deliver a smooth stroke is to silently ask yourself if you can feel the weight of the cue stick pulling downward on the fingers of your rear hand, wrist, and arm. If the answer is "yes," then take your practice strokes (in which the cue tip approaches but does not touch the ball), and let fly. If the answer is "no," jiggle your rear hand until it loosens up and becomes sensitive to the weight of the cue stick. Make sure you feel the heft of the cue stick; then proceed with your practice strokes and the shot itself.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! Great post.

Cranfield is one of my pool heroes and is probably the most underrated player of his era. (HE RAN 768 IN PRACTICE IN FRONT OF CREDIBLE WITNESSES).

His book written with Moy is a classic in the field of pool instruction and his
advice on the grip heavily influence my own views on that matter. Wisdom is knowing from whom to steal!!! (-:

The weight of the butt bearing down on the curved finger or fingers on the bottom of the butt is all that is needed. No grip hand induced pressure is required.

Regards,
Jim
 
JoeyA said:
I was wondering if anyone had serious suggestions that could help me not to grip the cue tightly. I now think gripping the cue too tightly is my greatest error.
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I think you have got some great ideas, and suggestions on how to break your bad habit you admit to having.

I will make one more suggestion, that is everything you do pre shot, during the shot process, and post shoot should be be like a Jet Pilot who does a Pre Flight Check List.

If all action during the pre shot, shot, and post shot are carefully check off before or as you do them you game will get better very fast.

I personally have not figured out how to do this pre, during, and post thing 100% of the time, but the times I do I get wonderful results.
zipmouth.gif
 
av84fun said:
I'm not aware of Snead having said anything about releasing the bird.

I met Slammin' Sammy about 10 years ago at the Greenbriar and have in my hand a copy of his FANTASTIC autobiography...The Education of a Golfer which personally autographed "To Jimmy...Sam Snead."

It is a prized possession.

Remarkably, on page 27, he wrote as follows..."I was a grabber at first; then I relaxed to the grip the stick with about the pressure you put on a BILLIARD CUE." (emphasis added).

Obviously, anyone holding a pool cue so tightly that it could not be "snatched" out of the butt hand grip is gripping WAY too tightly.

So, to the extent that anyone is willing to consider Snead as an authority on golf, then my original post stands as written.

For clarity, I am a right handed pool player and never suggested that I was referring to BRIDGE the "grip pressure" that was the subject of this thread.

And I assume you mean "stroke slip" not "slip stroke" which are similar but a slip stroke has nothing to do with grip pressure on the forward stroke.

Regards,
Jim
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Key word in that statememt is "about"... that I would agree with...

I would consider SS a athourity on Golf...Not necessarily pool or billiards...Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps he grips his cue a little too tightly?.....Since according to the statement from your book he says he was a grabber at first...Perhaps he had a similar problem to a lesser degree on his pool cue...So when he went to a grip similar to his pool grip...low an behold it was perfect for golf......(but perhaps still a little heavy for pool).....or more in relation to a modern day "right hand" pressure of a Golf grip...

For clarity..I was always talking about Grip hand not Bridge hand...I may have confused you with my I play pool left handed comment...I play golf right handed and pool left handed...Thus my "left" hand is my grip hand and is also my "controle" hand of the golf swing....If I actidentally typed "bridge" somewhere or mis lead you...I apologize...:)

In the end, the only thing I am 100% positive of is that we are never going to agree......:)


Actually this comparison has me real curious now of what players like John Schmidt , Earl Strickland, and Cory Duel would say about the relationship between the left hand "top" hand of a Golf Grip and the Grip hand of a pool cue......rumor has it that those three are farily decent at Golf.....and have been known to make a ball or two on the pool table....:)
 
acedotcom said:
This is from Essential Pool by Cranfield and Moy, p. 43:

Keeping the rear arm, hand and wrist relaxed and loose are keys to a smooth stroke. In tense moments, this is not always easy. Nerves and adrenaline can sometimes make a player with a normally sound stroke deliver an awful example of a stroke--stiff, awkward, and uneven. A good way to check whether your body is relaxed enough to deliver a smooth stroke is to silently ask yourself if you can feel the weight of the cue stick pulling downward on the fingers of your rear hand, wrist, and arm. If the answer is "yes," then take your practice strokes (in which the cue tip approaches but does not touch the ball), and let fly. If the answer is "no," jiggle your rear hand until it loosens up and becomes sensitive to the weight of the cue stick. Make sure you feel the heft of the cue stick; then proceed with your practice strokes and the shot itself.
Click to expand...

WOW. That is a nice way to check whether you have a relaxed grip.
REP to you.

John Schmidt actually mentioned something VERY similar when I took a lesson with him. I guess it didn't stick. :o

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
ok now, seriously speaking and my cents about the thread topic. IMO, it has also got to do with how you adjust to the cue's balance and weight. I believe that that those elements influence the way you grip a cue. for a lighter cue (17.5 ounce), my grip is loose a really relaxed and consistent with my stroke. in a 21 ounce cue (backward balanced), my grip is stiffer or tighter and somewhat unneasy or tensed with my stroke. I use a 19 ounce (well-balanced) cue for both easy stroking and power. btw, I handle or grip my cue just right with it.

my suggestion, is try and see if your gripping changes with cues of different weight and balance.
 
BRKNRUN said:
Key word in that statememt is "about"... that I would agree with...

I would consider SS a athourity on Golf...Not necessarily pool or billiards...Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps he grips his cue a little too tightly?.....Since according to the statement from your book he says he was a grabber at first...Perhaps he had a similar problem to a lesser degree on his pool cue...So when he went to a grip similar to his pool grip...low an behold it was perfect for golf......(but perhaps still a little heavy for pool).....or more in relation to a modern day "right hand" pressure of a Golf grip...

For clarity..I was always talking about Grip hand not Bridge hand...I may have confused you with my I play pool left handed comment...I play golf right handed and pool left handed...Thus my "left" hand is my grip hand and is also my "controle" hand of the golf swing....If I actidentally typed "bridge" somewhere or mis lead you...I apologize...:)

In the end, the only thing I am 100% positive of is that we are never going to agree......:)


Actually this comparison has me real curious now of what players like John Schmidt , Earl Strickland, and Cory Duel would say about the relationship between the left hand "top" hand of a Golf Grip and the Grip hand of a pool cue......rumor has it that those three are farily decent at Golf.....and have been known to make a ball or two on the pool table....:)
Click to expand...

Look, Ken...I merely tried to give JoeyA some advice regarding how to standardize his grip pressure. I merely used the golf tip I got...and have read about for 40 years...as an ANALOGY....to provide a MENTAL IMAGE of grip pressure.

You sidetracked the thread by getting all involved with the golf grip thing.

I sometimes get accused of debating endlessly but if the threads were reviewed carefully, most of the time I am merely responding to posts such as yours which descend into useless minutia.

So, I will CONCLUDE the dialog with you on this topic by simply restating my MAIN POINTS....which are:

1. Little to no OVERT PRESSURE need be or should be applied by the rear grip hand muscles because the weight of the cue provides all the friction required for nearly all shots. (as Hail Mary Shots confirmed in his recent post about grip pressure and cue weight)

2. Players working to develop consistent grip pressure should consciously practice by starting with little to no overt grip pressure and ENDING with little to no overt grip pressure.

You can agree or disagree with the above all you want but you can't debate those points with me any further because I won't participate. And let the record show that it was I who called a halt to further useless debate.

Regards,
Jim
 
Several months ago, I had a feeling that I was turning my wrist and gripping too hard on shots that required a good deal of speed. I had tried changing my grip before, but didn't like it. This time, I curled my last two fingers up so that they were above the cue and grip with the thumb, fore, and middle fingers. It definitely helped my game quite a bit and I've been shooting that way since except for the break shot.
 
av84fun said:
Look, Ken...I merely tried to give JoeyA some advice regarding how to standardize his grip pressure. I merely used the golf tip I got...and have read about for 40 years...as an ANALOGY....to provide a MENTAL IMAGE of grip pressure.

You sidetracked the thread by getting all involved with the golf grip thing.

I sometimes get accused of debating endlessly but if the threads were reviewed carefully, most of the time I am merely responding to posts such as yours which descend into useless minutia.
So, I will CONCLUDE the dialog with you on this topic by simply restating my MAIN POINTS....which are:

1. Little to no OVERT PRESSURE need be or should be applied by the rear grip hand muscles because the weight of the cue provides all the friction required for nearly all shots. (as Hail Mary Shots confirmed in his recent post about grip pressure and cue weight)

2. Players working to develop consistent grip pressure should consciously practice by starting with little to no overt grip pressure and ENDING with little to no overt grip pressure.

You can agree or disagree with the above all you want but you can't debate those points with me any further because I won't participate. And let the record show that it was I who called a halt to further useless debate.

Regards,
Jim
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Note the bold comments...

First I have merely pointed out what I think is a flaw in your ANALOGY...I apologize if this offends you...

I did not "sidetrack" anything...I simply pointed out why I thought it was flawed...You chose to sidetrack it...you could have simply said...I don't agree.

BTW...I agree with your points 1 and 2 above.....and have already cut and pasted the post from Hail Mary becuase I liked it so much.

I usually try and refrain from making any comments of a personal nature toward fellow posters as I expect that some are not as they appear via the written word....However...your "useless minutia" comment toward me has crossed the line...Quite frankly... IMO... your posts make you appear as a pompus arrogant jerk that can not stand to ever have anyone tell them that an idea or concept or analogy that they posted may be wrong in some way...

I am sure you will come back with some very creative verbiage that in some way puts you on a pedastool while trying to kick me to the curb...It would probably eat you up if you didn't.....That is the impression of the type of person I think you are......and that is the reason you get caught up in "pointless" debates......as you say......;)

I am sorry that you always feel the need to "validate" yourself as being more educated and/or some kind of higher social standard...

You probably are more educated, probably have more money than me and probably have a lifestyle socaially labeled as higher class....

But let the record show.....I don't give a rats ass.....Your posts are no better than anyone elses on this board.....

There....now the thread is OFFICIALLY side tracked.....;)

EDIT: I must edit this post because although I do agree with Hail Mary...the post t hat I actually cut and pasted (because I liked it so much) is the one from acedotcom...my apologies for the error.
 
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There's one instance where a death grip helps me

That's on centerball stun shots where I have to move the cb 1-2 feet after a near straight-in shot.
 
coopdeville said:
Is your grip on the handle of the cue or on the butt?
If it's on the handle, what type of wrap, if any, do you use?
-cOOp
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I have a pretty wide wingspan and my rear hand is close to the butt plate. Leather wrap.

Thanks to all who posted suggestions.


JoeyA
 
BRKNRUN said:
LOL....Wrong Again....
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LOL????? I don't know what is funny about the ingorance of you denial.

Let me help further your education.

"your posts make you appear as a pompus arrogant jerk"

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it. Many times, an opponent's use of an ad hominem attack is an indication that the opponent realizes that the argument itself is correct and cannot be refuted.

And what, may I ask, is a "pedastool"?...Some sort of stool that you put your feet on.

LOL yourself...iron your shorts...relax...be happy...and always remember the wise guidance of Jim Croce..

You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit in the wind.
YOu don't pull the mask off the 'ol Lone Ranger.......

AND YOU DON'T MESS AROUND WITH JIM!

(-:
 
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