How to get in line

M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In order to have a straight stroke you need to have your head, shoulder, elbow and hand all in the same vertical plane, correct.

I have the problem where my elbow is too far in. So my shoulder is out farther than my head and my cuetip curves to the left.

Anyways to move my elbow farther out I have to turn my head to the left. So much so that it is very uncomfortable and I cannot get my head aligned straight over the cue. It is facing to the right a little bit.

Any suggestions on what to do here? Should I move my elbow out only as far as is comfortable? or just learn to shoot with a crooked head? If you can remember Cane's picture. That's kind of how I stand.
 
mnShooter said:
In order to have a straight stroke you need to have your head, shoulder, elbow and hand all in the same vertical plane, correct.

I have the problem where my elbow is too far in. So my shoulder is out farther than my head and my cuetip curves to the left.

Anyways to move my elbow farther out I have to turn my head to the left. So much so that it is very uncomfortable and I cannot get my head aligned straight over the cue. It is facing to the right a little bit.

Any suggestions on what to do here? Should I move my elbow out only as far as is comfortable? or just learn to shoot with a crooked head? If you can remember Cane's picture. That's kind of how I stand.
Click to expand...


Not sure if I'm following you right but for what it's worth try turning your whole body just a little to the left, then make any adjustments.

Terry
 
That was my first thought as well. Just square up toward the table just a little bit more. You may be standing facing too far away from the table.
Steve
 
mnShooter said:
In order to have a straight stroke you need to have your head, shoulder, elbow and hand all in the same vertical plane, correct.

I have the problem where my elbow is too far in. So my shoulder is out farther than my head and my cuetip curves to the left.

Anyways to move my elbow farther out I have to turn my head to the left. So much so that it is very uncomfortable and I cannot get my head aligned straight over the cue. It is facing to the right a little bit.

Any suggestions on what to do here? Should I move my elbow out only as far as is comfortable? or just learn to shoot with a crooked head? If you can remember Cane's picture. That's kind of how I stand.
Click to expand...

LOL, I need to change that picture... that's how I stand when the Oxycodone just isn't enough to help my back! Maybe my boss lady will take some pics at the tournament in South Padre Island next week and I'll replace it with a "better" one.

Most important things... your stroke needs to be natural, IMO. Your elbow only closes and opens in one direction, so ideally, your elbow should be directly over the cue so that the forearm will move easily in a straight line. Head??? Hey, you've gotta put your head where you see the ball the best. Some place their dominant eye over the cue, some place the centerline of their head over the cue, some place their ear over the cue (Strickland comes to mind on that one). As long as you can perform a good smooth pendulum stroke, then your head position and stance are "whatever works", as long as you aren't out of balance or unsteady in your stance.

You might try the body shift that the others suggested. You want your elbow over the cue, but you do NOT want to put your shoulder or any other part of your body in a bind to get there.

Later,
Bob
 
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mnShooter said:
In order to have a straight stroke you need to have your head, shoulder, elbow and hand all in the same vertical plane, correct.

I have the problem where my elbow is too far in. So my shoulder is out farther than my head and my cuetip curves to the left.

Anyways to move my elbow farther out I have to turn my head to the left. So much so that it is very uncomfortable and I cannot get my head aligned straight over the cue. It is facing to the right a little bit.

Any suggestions on what to do here? Should I move my elbow out only as far as is comfortable? or just learn to shoot with a crooked head? If you can remember Cane's picture. That's kind of how I stand.
Click to expand...
It is quite hard to get the hand, elbow and shoulder into perfect alignment that allows a pendulum swing from the elbow down to be perfectly straight. Especially if you have wide shoulders.

Snooker players who tend to be more particular about this rotate their hips and torso, creating a significant twist, that can also twist the head a bit. Many just don't have the required flexibility to get into this position.

If the elbow is not perfectly vertical above the hand, then to make a straight cuing action movement at the shoulder (or even wrist, though not recommended), can compensate and keep the cue on a straight line.

The best way to see if you are cuing straight, that I've seen / tried, is to attach a laser to the middle of the cue and point it at a line on a piece of paper 10-12 feet away. The movement of the spot will magnify all the off-line errors so that they are very visible. Practice with this and you can come to feel how to perform a very straight cuing action, regardless of your biomechanical flaws.

While a very straight cuing action is advantageous, I still think the key factor in regular high accuracy is bridge hand placement (alignment). Getting the bridge on the right line is much harder than is often assumed. If the bridge is off-line, the best stroke in the world will not help you. If the bridge is on-line, then even a relatively badly stroked shot will find the pocket...at least on a US pool table.
 
I say don't worry about what is going on behind the cue ball, concentrate on what is going on in front of you.

If you can consistently shoot the following shots, which require everything to be working with extreme precision, then it does not matter *how* you are doing it. (So far as I am concerned, if you are standing on your head and making these shots, then fine with me!) However you if you get to where you can make these practice shots consistently, you will probably find that you look like a pro shooting when doing so.

These shots kind of force you to do everything right in order to make the shots. Note that I practice these shots on a tight pocket table, so I need to be even more accurate with my shooting which is good.

Practice the shots at the below link, especially the following...

-"Bank stroke practice"

"-Hit cue ball into object ball so object ball returns to collide with cue ball practice"

Billy Bob's Shot Accuracy Practice and Warm-up...
http://www.geocities.com/billybobnospam/basic_daily_practice.html
 
Billy_Bob said:
I say don't worry about what is going on behind the cue ball, concentrate on what is going on in front of you.

If you can consistently shoot the following shots, which require everything to be working with extreme precision, then it does not matter *how* you are doing it. (So far as I am concerned, if you are standing on your head and making these shots, then fine with me!) However you if you get to where you can make these practice shots consistently, you will probably find that you look like a pro shooting when doing so.

These shots kind of force you to do everything right in order to make the shots. Note that I practice these shots on a tight pocket table, so I need to be even more accurate with my shooting which is good.

Practice the shots at the below link, especially the following...

-"Bank stroke practice"

"-Hit cue ball into object ball so object ball returns to collide with cue ball practice"

Billy Bob's Shot Accuracy Practice and Warm-up...
http://www.geocities.com/billybobnospam/basic_daily_practice.html
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you Billy Bob. Nice shots, but really they're pretty basic and routine, except for the rock and fire drill or the "CB into OB back to CB" drill. The rest of them you should be able to shoot just like they're straight in shots. Well, let me rephrase... IF YOU HAVE A GOOD STROKE you should be able to shoot these as routine shots.

A lifetime of hearing statements like "don't worry about what is going on behind the cue ball, concentrate on what is going on in front of you." is exactly why I went through the expense and trouble to become a Certified Instructor. What goes on behind the CB DETERMINES what happens in front of you. I think of the stroke like the foundation of a house... lousy foundation, then the house is going to faulter. Well, you might get by with a lousy stroke in most situations, but to make a shot like this 90% plus, you better have control of what's going on behind the CB

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)END

or this

START(
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or any number of shots that you MUST have the ability to make consistently to play pool above a recreational level. I do play above a recreational level, but it took a long time to get there, and it also took learning the importance of awareness of my entire game, ESPECIALLY my stroke, to get there.

Later,
Bob
 
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There are those who are recreational players and are not the types who will ever visit a professional instructor. They are happy to just improve their game enough so they can win a few. If you try to tell these people how to stand, form their bridge, etc., they will not listen.

And for those people who I have helped (my neighbors mostly), I have had them practice shooting my "warm-up shots" on my tight pockets table. Note you *must* be exactly right on to make the pockets on my table.

And I get them to do this by saying I need to warm-up before playing and invite them to shoot the same shots I am. We take turns with the various warm-up shots.

When doing the "Bank stroke practice", if they follow through "up into the air" (usually to one side or the other), it puts spin on the ball and they don't make the pocket. Or if they do not follow through with the tip of their cue pointing to where they should be aiming, their aim will be off. And of course if they do not hit center ball, they will not make the pocket. Any sort of sloppiness will not work.

At first this looks easy, and these beginners try just whacking it in. (I tell them shooting faster does not improve your aim any!) Then they realize it is difficult and pay more attention to what they are doing. Then they do certain things and make the ball, do the wrong things and miss.

An amazing thing happens after they have practiced this for about a month (with no professional instruction = no one telling them how to stand, etc.), they start getting down on their shot, aiming with their nose just above their cue, and following through perfectly straight with a slow to medium stroke. They look just like a pro shooting. And they figure this out themselves.

It is an amazing thing to see...
 
Great post, Bob. And you know how much time in pool school is spent working on what happens behind the cb. Let's face it...that's where all the control comes from.
Steve
 
I had the same problem when I started. Try facing the shot and getting down with your shoulders square to the shot, then twisting only your lower body out of the way (move your butt to the left but keep your shoulders square).
 
How do you line up?

all I can say is wow.. lots of good info... :rolleyes:

If youd ask me, Id say, well, first you have to know where or what part of the pocket you need the object ball placed, that is your target for the object ball right? now Id say from that point you must find the contact point on the object ball that will send it to the desired target in the pocket. thats the hard part, now all you have to do is imagine a line that runs from the contact point on the object ball all the way to the floor, Since Im right handed my right foot is placed on this line.. if I had to Id lay my cue along this line before dropping down into my stance. I useualy close one eye, look down and my cue is right over my toes... (on my right foot) your left foot, needs to be in a position parallel with the right foot, and positioned so that the cue is away from your body, wouldnt do you much good if you were stabbing yourself in the side now would it? If you did this correctly and you swing straight you can make most shots with your eyes closed. everything is straight in, if your able to visualize the shot and can hold your cue along that line all shots are easy. Training your muscles and retaining good form is the hard part.. ;)

Thats what Id say if you ask me, but since you didnt, this is what I do...


2wld4u
 
This photo of a supposedly correct arm alignment for a snooker player shows clearly just how hard it is to align the shoulder and elbow to the cue line.

Extreme body twisting is usually necessary to get the cue on line with the shoulder (the axis point of the humerus..upper arm bone). Very few professional players have purely vertical forearms, or perfect alignment of the arm and cue.
 

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Colin Colenso said:
This photo of a supposedly correct arm alignment for a snooker player shows clearly just how hard it is to align the shoulder and elbow to the cue line.

Extreme body twisting is usually necessary to get the cue on line with the shoulder (the axis point of the humerous..upper arm bone). Very few professional players have purely vertical forearms, or perfect alignment of the arm and cue.
Click to expand...



Im going to play some tonight, I may have a couple pics taken to see whats up...


2wld4u
 
The most important thing.

One of the most important things that I learned is that your cue should be on the line of the shot. I like to place my cue and bridge hand in its proper place and then the rest of my stance forms around it. Of course you want to make sure that your eyes, (or dominant eye) is also on the same line. As long your cue is on the line of the shot on contact and during the follow through you should be ok. Not forgetting the importance of balance, eye movement etc. etc. etc.

I hope I haven't repeated anyone I don't have the patience to read every post today lol.
 
Anybody see the Tom Ross article in BD and Allison Fishers pic?
It shows Allison shooting, her stick and hand are a blurr, her forearm has a slight blurr, EVERYTHING ELSE is absolutely motionless. Perfect form!

Terry
 
mnShooter said:
In order to have a straight stroke you need to have your head, shoulder, elbow and hand all in the same vertical plane, correct.
Click to expand...

No you don't. That's totally incorrect. Plenty of players compete at world class level and don't have any of those.
 
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