How to get rid of the shot clock.
- Thread starter CaptainJR
- Start date
Then you haven't been keeping up. Virtually every match televised, there are shots where you'll see the player break totally from routine, rush up to the table and jab at the ball like a virtual newb.vapoolplayer said:
Sometimes, they've already used their extension. Sometimes they try to save the extension for a later usage.
Can definitely relate to saving money, and personally, it's nice to see the pre-shot routines to some degree. But, gotta look at the lesser of two evils.
Also note, that there is an assumption that a slightly longer shot clock would mean that the players are taking quite a bit longer per shot. The players would rarely use the full time on the clock. Just like they often use much less than 30 seconds currently. Pro players typically have their own pace, which renders the shot clock inconsequential for most. Inevitably in a match there is a point, where they will get in a situation that requires a bit more thought, calculation, and reflection. For those few instances, 15 seconds would be very useful, in order to allow those players to quickly come to a reasonable conclusion, and execute according to skill. All in all, I doubt it'd have more of an effect than 3-5 minutes per match.
Many of you assume that by having 15 additional seconds, that the players would use the full time limit every shot. This is clearly not the case.
Likewise, a solution that may make you more comfortable is simply to allow 3 extensions per game. Or could do 6 per match - which if the players used them all, would only be 1.5 minutes longer per player.
This would allow the players more freedom to maintain comfort, routine, and performance. At the same time, would ensure that pro matches are won by skill, as opposed to poor execution from rushing.
It would be interesting to hear some pro perspectives on this matter.... Besides mine of course.
FLICKit said:
Well, all I can say is that, in my thirty years of attedning pro events, my experience is different than yours. Without a shot clock, those having a pre-shot routine lasting a minute or longer stick with it. With a 30 second clock, they all manage to find a pre-shot routine that can be completed in thirty seconds,and with a 45 second clock, I'm quite sure that they'd find a pre-shot routine they could complete in 45 seconds. They'll use a smuch time as you give them, at least my observations suggest as much.
Of course, this is very much a matter of opinion.
drivermaker
Banned
sjm said:
Mine too because I've seen it happen for many years without fail...and I'd have to say it's more fact than opinion!
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sjm said:
I think that is a pretty high percentage. 1/5th - enough that one might have to say they have there rights to take there time to do there best.
Again, I'm not condoning slow play and certainly not being slow with the intention of sharking. But if 1/5th or the pool players like it played a little slower, that is kind of hard to argue with.
CaptainJR said:
probably 1/5 of drivers drive at a snails pace on the highway...........don't you still bitch when you get can't get around them?
VAP
vapoolplayer said:probably 1/5 of drivers drive at a snails pace on the highway...........don't you still bitch when you get can't get around them?
VAP
I don't think 1/5 of the drivers drive at a snails pace. Once in a great while I'll get behind someone that is driving under the speed limit. I think the 1/5 that you are talking about drive at or 1-5 mph above the speed limit rather than 10 to 30 mph over the speed limit like the rest of us do. This has brought something to mind that I'm going to elaborate on later today when I have time.
drivermaker
Banned
CaptainJR said:
In the July 2004 issue of Billiards Digest there was a small Q&A section with Jason Kane who participates in the VNEA world speed pool championships.
Here was the question to him: "What's the fastest that you have run out an 8-ball rack?
Answer: "It was 35 seconds with the 8 ball going last. It was a tournament in 1998--the VNEA world speed pool championship. Dave Pearson has done it in something like 26 seconds. He's in the Guinness Book of World Records. I have the second fastest time. No one I've heard of has beaten that.
Question: "What's the Secret"?
Answer: "I don't really practice. I play naturally fast. I THINK QUITE QUICKLY. I break, and I SEE THE NEXT FIVE SHOTS AHEAD IN A SPLIT SECOND. And as I'm running around the table, I SEE THE NEXT FIVE. Also, if the 8 ball is at the top of the table, I clear the bottom first. Wherever the 8 ball is, I clear the other end and work my way back".
As Snapshot9 has said multiple times in his post...."They're PROS" For Chrissake Capt., let me say it again. THEY'RE F*#KING PROS! They've seen shots and layouts millions of times before just like it. With 9-ball, all you're talking about is-- "Connect The Dots". They might not be able to see 5 shots ahead like Jason Kane in a split second, but as pros, it shouldn't take them an amount of time that is at a morons pace.
drivermaker said:
Amen, brother, amen.
CaptainJR said:
I had thought about this earlier and know that several paragraphs of writing have skimmed through my mind all the way from billiards: the parlor game, to the state of the country today, through my personal history in pool playing. I'm not going to go into it as much as I originally thought I would. I think from this hopefully short post you will all get the point I'll be trying to make which should explain clearly why I don't think a shot clock has any business in pool. (or chess) (or golf)
Maybe I'll just some it up in a sentence or two.
Pool, a game of relaxation and leisure, that is being changed (for the worse or the better, depending on your point of view) like so many other things today by the rat race of modern society.
I use and need pool to get away from this rat race that I've become part of in most other aspects of my life.
drivermaker
Banned
CaptainJR said:
Since the PGA Tour can and does put every player on the shot clock when they start dragging ass, can assess penalty strokes and heavily fine them for slow play if done repeatedly...even to Tiger Woods...it's obvious that everyone doesn't think as you do.
Hope you continue to have fun on your table at home playing at any speed you wish.
CaptainJR said:
when you start doing it for a living.........its not leisure and relaxation.
shot clocks are for pro players, not amatuers.
VAP
CaptainJR said:
It is hard to argue with when the parameters of a tournament must change in order to accommodate slow play. Tournaments cannot be infinite. There are businesses and participants that demand there are restrictions. Organizers don't put shot-clocks out there to be entertaining. They do it because they need to finish the event within the time allowed.
If 20% of the field is slow or only one great player is slow is irrelevant. The entire field could be slow. Players do not run tournaments and that's a fact I think you're missing. When I was managing a room, I can assure you, the owner would have FLIPPED if a tournament went beyond the time specified. So to answer your question, you have the room to argue with and the room has the final and absolute say. It's irrelevant what Jeremy Jones thinks or what you think. If tournaments were 20% longer, we'd lose at least half of them!
nineballne1
Banned
It takes one player, who plays slow, to make the entire tournament run late.
Unless of course he loses early.
But, if you have one good/great player that plays slow and is in til the end, you can add hours and hours to the length of the tournament. Everyone will always be waiting for his round or his bracket.
Unless of course he loses early.
But, if you have one good/great player that plays slow and is in til the end, you can add hours and hours to the length of the tournament. Everyone will always be waiting for his round or his bracket.
drivermaker said:
OK... Based on that, then would you eliminate every extension? Why even give them each 1 extension per game? They're pros, they don't need it anyway. They've seen the shots and layouts millions of times before just like it. Why would they ever need an additional 15 seconds?
Hmmm... While you're at it. Let's reduce the shotclock to 15 or 10 seconds even. Heck, if you can do it, then surely the pros can as well. If we reduce the shot clock then there should be no reason for ESPN to clip any games. Should now be able to show the games in its entirety. ESPN will be foreever grateful to you.
Now that you mention it, the shot clock is too long in basketball too. Reduce it to 15 or 12 seconds. If you can knock in 8 objects in such a short period of time, surely they can put 1 object in the hole. They're pros too! Stop being such tortoises. If Shaq, Duncan, or Yao, can't get up the court, then hasta la vista. Can thus shorten the game to 7 minute quarters. Why waste so much time?
Football can do the same. 30 second play clock here, and 45 seconds there, that's ludicrous. Cut that crap to 15 seconds and keep it consistent. They're pro athletes in the prime of their life, surely they can get their butts off the ground and go stand back on the field in 15 seconds. What are we waitin for? Once again 7 minute quarters would be enough, and of course we'd have to have the one minute warning. Two minutes is way too long. You could march your team all the way up the field in that amount of time. These Elway and Montana comeback stats are ridiculous.
drivermaker
Banned
FLICKit said:
The boy has finally seen the light....
