How to measure Efren's 2-railer Z kick?

[cuetable]

CueTable Help

On Sat I had a chance to practice some 9 ball with a friend. All the sudden this came up (page 1). I recognized the layout right a way and made the shot (page 2). It was done purely by feel with a center-ball firm hit. I could sort of feel the CB path, but to be honest this had to be all luck to knock the 6 in.

As I recall, some random thoughts went through my head as I walked around the table:

1, A firm hit will shorten the rebound angle
2, Any follow, draw or english will complicate things and reduce speed
3, I would get about 1 tip of running english after cushion contact
4, I was looking for the first contact point to do a 1 rail kick from the other side.
5, This shot was first seen from the tie-breaker game at 1995 Sands Regency Classic Final by Efren Reyes against Earl Strikland. (CTPL Archive: http://pl.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=35 )

*Note the layout diagrammed were drawn from memory so it might not be correct.



I would like to see a serious discussion about Z kicks here by people and hopefully we can all learn something from it.

Ideas anyone?

 

[seymore15074]

Corner pocket to 3rd diamond center leads to the opposite corner, if I remember correctly...it hardly ever comes up. As far as Effren's, adjust and hope for the best...he was lucky enough to hit it just right.

 

[Flettir]

I had this one in a tournemant Friday night. Because of the balls in the way I had to use a lot of side spin to start the shot.

CueTable Help

 

[Sensation]

I had this one in a tournemant Friday night. Because of the balls in the way I had to use a lot of side spin to start the shot.

Just one rail is sometime enough.

 

[Flettir]

My bad, I should have shown the 2 ball more tword the top and in the way of a 1 rail near side kick.

 

[cuetable]

Thanks for sharinging!

Corner pocket to 3rd diamond center leads to the opposite corner, if I remember correctly...it hardly ever comes up. As far as Effren's, adjust and hope for the best...he was lucky enough to hit it just right.

Very interesting, does this show what you were describing?

CueTable Help

Do you aim at the 3rd diamond (page 1) or aim to have the CB reach the 3rd diamond (page 2)?

 

[third_i]

I had this one in a tournemant Friday night. Because of the balls in the way I had to use a lot of side spin to start the shot.

Made it a bit complicated huh? I would have gotten the jump cue, even with the 6 ball that close you could have angled your shot so you're jumping half a ball with some right spin. It would masse a bit to at least get you a better chance at hittin the ball, if not making it. This shot would also eliminate variables such as dead rails, not to mention that you have to hit the perfect english to make the shot. Just my two cents.

 

[seymore15074]

Very interesting, does this show what you were describing?

Do you aim at the 3rd diamond (page 1) or aim to have the CB reach the 3rd diamond (page 2)?

I can't see those, they are blocked...I can only see images.

 

[seymore15074]

Corner pocket to 3rd diamond center leads to the opposite corner, if I remember correctly...it hardly ever comes up. As far as Effren's, adjust and hope for the best...he was lucky enough to hit it just right.

Actually, if you happened to be just before the 1st diamond (by the corner), and kicked just before the side pocket, it should theoretically lead to the short rail (nearly a diamond from the corner pocket). This would be what I've quoted above, only everything moved almost a diamond up table...

Adjusting this kick with english would be very tricky because it is running off of the first rail and reverse off of the second. Also, tightening it up by hitting it hard is not going to have much effect because I think it has to be hit fairly hard already. The next time I'm down the hall, I'll try to figure out some way to gauge this kick...

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Jimmy Reed

I own Jimmy Reed's DVD set that he sells on eBay. In there he shows a method of finding the contact point on the first rail to make these "z" kicks no matter where the balls are. His DVD set is an EXCELLENT reference for kicking and banking. He has some stuff in there (this Z kick included) that I haven't seen elsewhere. Worth the $100 IMO.

 

[cuetable]

Z System

CueTable Help

There are 4 pages of layouts above drawn from my imagination based on the words of seymore15074. I wonder whether the Z is can be scaled or rotated as shown.

I will try them out myself as soon as I can get onto a pooltable (hardly any chance even thought there are 3 pool halls located 10 min. from me in Manhattan). My intention is to find a way to measure 2 rail Z shot with center ball, normal stroke, firm hit. Later we can slowly add variables to discuss the outcome.

It seems there has not been an open discussion about this in the past. Most of people think of this as a "feel" shot (including myself). However, it would be very helpful if we can come up with some starting points to look at before the feeling process