How to Play This Pattern?

[captainjko]

Someone mentioned "try NOT to hit a rail". I spent 5 days with Tor last month and his advice is to "HIT" a rail. Not every shot but most. Sometimes you just let the cue ball follow the tangent line and not hit a rail. But when the rail is there, pick a spot on that rail, hit it and let the cue ball bounce off to the open area. There is so much more to these shots like others have mentioned. Speed, stroke, angles, etc. Shoot the shots others have mentioned. See which way you are more comfortable with. I used to use extreme English on every shot. I was missing shots by spinning the object ball off path. It is amazing what a half tip or one tip of English will do. Good luck. And keep setting up 4 and 5 ball runs then progress to 6, 7, 8, 9, 10......

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Draw is not the correct way off of the first ball. The least amount of rails that the cue ball touches the better off you areHow many examples of the opposite do you need to see to know you are wrong?. The draw shot requires two rails and the follow shot requires zero to one. The shorter distance the cue ball has to travel to get on the next ball is the BEST way to shapeThis is complete rubbish..

The draw shot requires 2 rails to be the best option. The follow shot, if shot properly, also requires 2 rails, negating your argument on this point.

ONB

 

[RFranklin]

Get Creative with the layout

It is silly to argue about an "absolute" right way to get out here. Everyone sees layouts differently and there are 10 different ways out of this one. Get creative with it. I just finished running this making all balls in top left corner just to change things up. One off the eight, high on the two. Off one rail with angle on the three to go up table. Draw and draw again. Sure, good players keep it simple but how many times have you dogged a ball on what should have been an easy pattern only to get up to the table later and you have to readjust to a entirely changed layout?

For the record I would draw off two rails too.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The draw shot requires 2 rails to be the best option. The follow shot, if shot properly, also requires 2 rails, negating your argument on this point.

ONB

No. You have ball in hand. Play the plain follow with no or one rail and without side spin. Or, you can make it complicated. But the thing you need to notice is that the OP was unable to play the simple follow shot. Now you are going to have him control the draw, side spin and speed. What are his chances. Part of giving advice and lessons is figuring out what will give the recipient the best chance to succeed.

 

[Gatz]

I would play follow 2 rails with top right coming off the long rail because this would be the most comfortable play for me. Also depending on pocket size i'd rather naturally roll the ball in. Draw could bopple with tighter pockets or with a nervous arm hit it to hard. Just seems like more finess with draw in this situation.

If i personally would do this 100 times in a row with follow i would get closer to 100 times with follow than draw.

 

[pocket]

I missed that one. Do you have a link to the thread with the layout generator?

Link Please!!

See post 43.

 

[pocket]

Part of giving advice and lessons is figuring out what will give the recipient the best chance to succeed.

Ouch. Your advice to me was, practice something else lol, not much of a chance to succeed on this shot if I don't practice it.

 

[RiverCity]

If you can't play the one ball in the upper left corner with BIH and plain follow and get good position on the two ball nearly every time, then you need to find some help. Whether that help is from an instructor or a book or a friend or the guy who runs the pool hall is not important, but you need to know simple follow shots. You have to know them. You have to know the angles and the speeds.

You are not ready for this drill. You need to back up and work on simpler single-shot drills like the wagonwheel.

Ouch. Your advice to me was, practice something else lol, not much of a chance to succeed on this shot if I don't practice it.

No, Bobs advice was if you cant consistently get position by shooting to the top pocket with follow, then your practice time would be better spent working on basics as opposed to this specific "drill".
You can get good position off of either option discussed, so it comes down to preference more than anything. Some people are better at judging speed with draw, others with follow. Of the 2 options, the follow is generally the easiest to execute accurately speed wise.
Chuck

 

[pocket]

No, Bobs advice was if you cant consistently get position by shooting to the top pocket with follow, then your practice time would be better spent working on basics as opposed to this specific "drill".
You can get good position off of either option discussed, so it comes down to preference more than anything. Some people are better at judging speed with draw, others with follow. Of the 2 options, the follow is generally the easiest to execute accurately speed wise.
Chuck

Alas, 'twas a weak attempt at humor Chuck. I understood what Bob suggested.

This kind of 4 ball drill is tough for me, for sure, but I'm also far enough along in my game to start practicing tougher things (at least in my addled mind). Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[RiverCity]

Alas, 'twas a weak attempt at humor Chuck. I understood what Bob suggested.

This kind of 4 ball drill is tough for me, for sure, but I'm also far enough along in my game to start practicing tougher things (at least in my addled mind). Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Youre correct....... It was a weak attempt....... :grin:
Shoot it both ways and see what feels most natural to you. Some shots do indeed have a right and a wrong way, but this is not one of them.
Chuck

 

[Masayoshi]

Well, I've done some work, cause from what I've read, you're more a beginner than an advanced learner (hope I didn't misunderstood that)!

There are many shots, where players use their personal preference (stop, follow, draw)…
…that's when both or all options will lead to the same result.
And there are many shots, where you have to overcome your personal preference and make the RIGHT shot SELECTION…
…which will have the most successful outcome (in percentages).

And I wanted to illustrate, why (IMHO) „Old Nine Baller“ uses the RIGHT shot SELECTION – even MUST be!
For me, there's NO DOUBT about his way of playing the shot in this case (and I'm sure MOST of the Pros would use this way)!

I call it the „approach path or entry lane“:

I have drawn a line from the point where the cueball contacts the 1 to the desired position (direct shots)
or from where the cueball contacts the cushion to the desired position (shots using the short rail).
I used the line from the center of the cueball to show which approach path „whitey“ will be able to go just barely passing the 8 or the 2. You can see the wide or little scope between these two balls for the path of the cueball…

Just from having a short look at it, there are minimum 5 ways to play position:

1: When I want the BEST RESULTS coming up MOST often:
I would play the same shot like „Old Nine Baller“!!!



2: When everything has gone astray before and I'm feeling anxious:
I would do the follow through (make sure potting the 1 – and hoping the 2 will be just OKAY)!


3: Some Pros like this shot – and if I wanna try something out I'll maybe do so:
Play a draw shot from the 1 between the 8 and 2. Requires VERY good speed and direction control.



4: When I'm in the zone and just wanna make a nice shot:
Playing the 1 with nice right english, cueball to the short cushion and between 8 and 2. Shouldn't be the first choice!



5: When I'm in the zone and WANT to make a tough 2 (just for fun):
Make a stop shot from above the 1 and play the 2 in the corner (passing the 4 just barely)! NOT very USEFUL!

I hope this was helpful and the loss of translation or of using terms in english isn't too bad…

I was reading through this whole thread and was amazed that nobody even suggested 3. It is most error proof option with ball in hand, hands down. Although any of the options are pretty basic and high percentage no matter how you play it.

 

[Pidge]

Personally If I came up against this in a match I would use follow sending the 1 into the 8 ball pocket and follow up to the long rail, or no rail. Its easier to judge the path the CB will take using follow, and not to mention easier to judge speed. I think the odds are higher using draw of getting too steep or shallow on the 2, making it harder than it needs to be to get to the 3. If you get too high on the 2 then the 8 comes into play and you may have to spin around it. Too shallow and you have the opposite long rail to play with, so you can cue through the ball and use that rail to your advantage. Its not a very difficult pattern but if you struggle with it just stick to what you know. Don't try spinning the CB, the layout doesn't need it.

 

[Masayoshi]

Personally If I came up against this in a match I would use follow sending the 1 into the 8 ball pocket and follow up to the long rail, or no rail. Its easier to judge the path the CB will take using follow, and not to mention easier to judge speed. I think the odds are higher using draw of getting too steep or shallow on the 2, making it harder than it needs to be to get to the 3. If you get too high on the 2 then the 8 comes into play and you may have to spin around it. Too shallow and you have the opposite long rail to play with, so you can cue through the ball and use that rail to your advantage. Its not a very difficult pattern but if you struggle with it just stick to what you know. Don't try spinning the CB, the layout doesn't need it.

What I don't like about that shot is that to get an ideal angle on the 2 (Ideal is above it, not below it), you need to come very close to brushing the 2 and things can get ugly if you do brush it. You can play the cue ball on a path closer to the 8, but to get an ideal angle, you have to use the rail and come off it several inches coming at the 2 ball which means you need a little more precise speed control. With the draw shot, it takes you at an angle where you don't really need to worry about coming off the rail because it is still an easy shot if the cue ball gets frozen.

 

[TrumanHW]

Hmmm, exactly what I thought. Right in front of my face. Will practice this tonight ty.

I actually disagree with the diagram of playing it to the short rail with draw;

with BIH, I'd either take a small angle to follow it in to the pocket nearest the 8 to shoot the 2 in it's closest pocket.

And if not, then I'd take a small angle and draw it back one rail with no side spin (which could get away from you more often than just draw).

Next I'd follow to the end rail (past the 8 again) then to the side rail.

Granted this is a concession layout on big pockets...but the presumption I take is that it's challenging for your skill level OR, you want to know the absolute highest statistical method under pressure where certainty is preferred.

If someone has to shoot it with draw two rails (crossing the line), they'll mess it up 30% more often than any of the suggestions above. It violates basic principles...crossing the line or using draw to get to a precise point.

 

[TrumanHW]

I was reading through this whole thread and was amazed that nobody even suggested 3. It is most error proof option with ball in hand, hands down. Although any of the options are pretty basic and high percentage no matter how you play it.

I have a really remedial question. Where do you get the images from to show the diagrams?

 

[Masayoshi]

I have a really remedial question. Where do you get the images from to show the diagrams?

That was actually a quote from the guy above me, but he probably used http://www.billiardsthegame.com/onepocket/

 

[Pidge]

What I don't like about that shot is that to get an ideal angle on the 2 (Ideal is above it, not below it), you need to come very close to brushing the 2 and things can get ugly if you do brush it. You can play the cue ball on a path closer to the 8, but to get an ideal angle, you have to use the rail and come off it several inches coming at the 2 ball which means you need a little more precise speed control. With the draw shot, it takes you at an angle where you don't really need to worry about coming off the rail because it is still an easy shot if the cue ball gets frozen.

I see your point, but for me personally I would like to finish below the 2. My ideal angle would be somewhere like a 3/4 ball cut to the right on the 2 just to float over for the 3.

 

[TrumanHW]

That was actually a quote from the guy above me, but he probably used http://www.billiardsthegame.com/onepocket/

How do you draw the arrows showing the CB route?

 

[playdoubles]

Table layout...

How do you draw the arrows showing the CB route?

I've just taken the picture of the original post, loaded it into a quarkxpress document.

Then I used my lines and cueball from older documents (that I've created long time ago) for shots or complete runouts...

You can see my originals in a thread with "drills"...

If you have something in mind to be created, you can make a drawing of the layout and send it via e-mail to me chach@gmx.net
When I have time left, I will convert it into a hopefully nice layout!

 

[Busboy]

You handing out freebies!

What's the old cliche? Draw's for show; follow's for dough.

I think one should be able to execute either, but follow is far more consistent.

Draw's for show; follow's for dough. Haha I like that :grin: