How to tighten up my stoke.

OrigZaphod

OrigZaphod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi All,

I was a good player for many years (20 years ago) Not pro level by any means, but well I held my own and made decent coin at the same time. Flash forward to coming back after a 20 year break, no playing really at all during that time.

There are days I am spot on, don't miss and feel like the old me again, however in an instant it goes away and I shoot like a brand new player again.

In finally trying to figure it out, determined what I think is 2 severe causes out of most likely many,

1 I am swinging my arm out during my stroke,
and
2, I am putting a twist on the cue as soon as it is going to strike the cue ball.

Is there any drills, stance, etc I can do to help get me to stroke the cue stright, not twist my wrist and to stp swinging my elbow out?
 
Slow it all down, slow motion, consciously ensuring that your elbow and wrist remain on the same vertical plane as your cue, which should also be on the shot line. The same line/plane should also be crossing over your back foot, and your front foot should be off to the side and pointed in the general direction of the shot.

Pay close attention to how it all feels, how the precise slow movements feel. Do this for a few minutes, not hitting balls, just strictly paying attention to the position of all the moving parts of your stroke, ensuring that everything looks and feels correct.

After about 10 or 15 min of this slow-motion business, step away from the table and spend some time doing something else, taking a break from the pool table. Come back a few hours later and do another 10 min session of slow motion stroke practice, just like earlier.

Repetition builds muscle memory. After 3 or 4 days of short sessions like this (10 min or so, 3 or 4 times per day), you'll notice a much better stroke. If you insist on playing pool during these few days of stroke development, you will likely backslide a bit, unless you really focus on keeping everything lined up on every single stroke.
 
BC21 said:
Slow it all down, slow motion, consciously ensuring that your elbow and wrist remain on the same vertical plane as your cue, which should also be on the shot line. The same line/plane should also be crossing over your back foot, and your front foot should be off to the side and pointed in the general direction of the shot.

Pay close attention to how it all feels, how the precise slow movements feel. Do this for a few minutes, not hitting balls, just strictly paying attention to the position of all the moving parts of your stroke, ensuring that everything looks and feels correct.

After about 10 or 15 min of this slow-motion business, step away from the table and spend some time doing something else, taking a break from the pool table. Come back a few hours later and do another 10 min session of slow motion stroke practice, just like earlier.

Repetition builds muscle memory. After 3 or 4 days of short sessions like this (10 min or so, 3 or 4 times per day), you'll notice a much better stroke. If you insist on playing pool during these few days of stroke development, you will likely backslide a bit, unless you really focus on keeping everything lined up on every single stroke.
Click to expand...
I like this advice. I have not tried that with my pool stroke, but I soon will. I also took a little break (not as long as the OP) and I'm in the process of redeveloping/fine tuning my stroke. My golf game sucks, but I have found slowing my back swing down and staying on plane gives me more control. I've recently been watching the breaking 50 series with Bryson Dechambeau and I'm amazed at how smoothly and effortlessly his swing it. Even in putting, it seems he barely hits the ball and gets the same distance as others. All the greats of every sport have this capability or characteristic in some way or another. If you watch SVB or Chris Melling's strokes, they are just so smooth. It is an art form on the same level as a graceful ballet. I'm not sure what sport they say "smooth is fast" besides running, but I'm sure you could probably say "smooth is precision" in pool.
 
Here's what works for players I work with who tend to twist the cue. As an exercise, try shooting with your thumb and second finger of your grip hand completely off the cue. Let them hang straight down. So you will be shooting with just the last three fingers on the cue. It will feel awful, but you will probably find that to your surprise, your cue goes straight. Why? Because the first two fingers are usually the culprits in twisting the cue. After you shoot for awhile with them completely off the cue, then put them back on with very light pressure so they are not leading your stroke. If you start twisting again --- too much pressure with those two fingers. Back off.

Nearly all of the time --- power is determined by the speed of your arm swing, not how tightly you grip your cue. Yes, sometimes you do have to hang on to it, like with breaking, but the vast majority of the time, players squeeze the cue unnecessarily.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It could be that you have a major problem in your fundamentals. Try recording yourself. Or, find an instructor who does video analysis of fundamentals.
Click to expand...
I second this. A steer in your stroke is often a result of something else, not directly related to the stroking hand itself, e.g. your upper body being in the way of the stroke causing a steer, or elbow/shoulder/wrist related stuff. Recording yourself is the fastest method of diagnosing the issue.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It could be that you have a major problem in your fundamentals. Try recording yourself. Or, find an instructor who does video analysis of fundamentals.
Click to expand...
Oikawa said:
I second this. A steer in your stroke is often a result of something else, not directly related to the stroking hand itself, e.g. your upper body being in the way of the stroke causing a steer, or elbow/shoulder/wrist related stuff. Recording yourself is the fastest method of diagnosing the issue.
Click to expand...
How about stroking in front of a mirror? Never done it myself but always liked the idea.

pj
chgo
 
BC21 said:
Slow it all down, slow motion, consciously ensuring that your elbow and wrist remain on the same vertical plane as your cue, which should also be on the shot line. The same line/plane should also be crossing over your back foot, and your front foot should be off to the side and pointed in the general direction of the shot.

Pay close attention to how it all feels, how the precise slow movements feel. Do this for a few minutes, not hitting balls, just strictly paying attention to the position of all the moving parts of your stroke, ensuring that everything looks and feels correct.

After about 10 or 15 min of this slow-motion business, step away from the table and spend some time doing something else, taking a break from the pool table. Come back a few hours later and do another 10 min session of slow motion stroke practice, just like earlier.

Repetition builds muscle memory. After 3 or 4 days of short sessions like this (10 min or so, 3 or 4 times per day), you'll notice a much better stroke. If you insist on playing pool during these few days of stroke development, you will likely backslide a bit, unless you really focus on keeping everything lined up on every single stroke.
Click to expand...
Slow is the word. 👍🏻
 
As for swinging your elbow out, it usually stems from an inaccurate stance where the player feels something isn't right and is unconsciously making an adjustment in mid-stroke. Work on your approach --- how you step into your shots. Make sure you have a consistent approach to every shot.
 
OrigZaphod said:
Hi All,

I was a good player for many years (20 years ago) Not pro level by any means, but well I held my own and made decent coin at the same time. Flash forward to coming back after a 20 year break, no playing really at all during that time.

There are days I am spot on, don't miss and feel like the old me again, however in an instant it goes away and I shoot like a brand new player again.

In finally trying to figure it out, determined what I think is 2 severe causes out of most likely many,

1 I am swinging my arm out during my stroke,
and
2, I am putting a twist on the cue as soon as it is going to strike the cue ball.

Is there any drills, stance, etc I can do to help get me to stroke the cue stright, not twist my wrist and to stp swinging my elbow out?
Click to expand...
Post a vid and we may get to see WHY you are having these issues as they are not 'causes' as you called them, but symptoms.

The two issues you listed are two sides of the same coin really. If you twist, the hand goes inside (left) relative to the elbow for a righty. This leaves you with option A, leaving the elbow anchored resulting in the hand moving way inside/left and the tip moving right, or option B, fly the elbow out to the right to give the hand a chance of staying on the shot line. If timing is all synced up, the elbow going out will offset the hand coming in and you can even play pretty decent for a spell. But this delicate timing is extremely difficult to replicate so you wind up being wildly inconsistent or at best streaky.

You have a lot of company as a 'twister'. But twisters come in many varieties with a range of fixes, no different than fixing a slice in golf. A video analysis or good in-person instructor can save you a ton of time. Posting a vid here can't hurt either ;)
 
Thanks for all the input, I have finally got my pool room setup and have been playing more and trying some drills everyday.

Little improvement now, but starting to budget again for an actual instructor at this point as figuring out my stance on my own is not working, lol I have start loosening my grip and can see a noticeable improvement there so I think that is/was causing the twist i was seeing.

My tip to any new player that is good, DO NOT take a 20 year break! :lol:
 
Quick Fix...Step in to the shot as normal. Have someone remove the cue ball and then stroke forward about 6 inches. Does it feel comfortable?
If not try this. While stepping in to your shot have the cue tip about 4 inches on the far side of the cue ball. As you get down, pull the cue back to the close side of the cue ball, where you would normally. Stroke thru with out the cue ball. Does it feel like a straighter/smoother stroke? It may help.
Obviously, follow thru does not change anything after cue tip and cue ball contact, but this may help correct errors in your stroke.
 
I've gone to shorter action. choked up some and deliver more of a 'punchy' hit but still follow thru. works great on most shots and is more accurate. if i have to really unleash on one i'll move grip hand back but on most shots the shorter action is more reliable.
 
garczar said:
I've gone to shorter action. choked up some and deliver more of a 'punchy' hit but still follow thru. works great on most shots and is more accurate. if i have to really unleash on one i'll move grip hand back but on most shots the shorter action is more reliable.
Click to expand...
Well, it worked for Allan Hopkins and Danny Barouty and other players with short punchy strokes, but as I can recall, they weren't too fond of shooting the big shots and pretty much did everything possible to avoid them.
 
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garczar said:
I've gone to shorter action. choked up some and deliver more of a 'punchy' hit but still follow thru. works great on most shots and is more accurate. if i have to really unleash on one i'll move grip hand back but on most shots the shorter action is more reliable.
Click to expand...
Back in the day when it was very common to have 3-4 different strokes for different shots, the 'punch stroke' u describe was def top choice for stops, stuns, and any time u had to 'cinch' a shot. It isn't a finnesse stroke. It doesn't spin the ball particularly well. But it is the most reliable way to just make a ball....or so was the common thinking on the matter anyway.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Why not? What does "spin the ball well" mean?

pj
chgo
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It's what people refer to as 'spin quality', or how much spin u get relative the effort put in. I get that the physics of it says its just a matter of tip speed and contact position, so in theory, as long as u get to the same speed and manage to hit the same spot on the cb the spin will be the same.

I guess the big difference is that these punchy strokes tend to take out the last lever (wrist). This is what makes them so secure and trustworthy for cinching shots but taking out the last lever also means that more work needs to be done in order to achieve a speed which is attainable in a much more effortless manner when the wrist is involved. The relative ease with which a loose wristy stroke generates speed with contact point accuracy makes it seem like the punchy delivery doesn't spin the ball all that well in comparison, especially on draws where the extra effort often causes the elbow to drop early and the tip to hit higher than aimed up.

But ur absolutely right (in what ur question is hinting at) that if u achieve the same speed and tip position on the cb, the cb doesn't care whether the tip got there in a smoothly accelerating, snappy, or punchy manner. It will spin just the same for all.
 
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WobblyStroke said:
… ur absolutely right (in what ur question is hinting at) that if u achieve the same speed and tip position on the cb, the cb doesn't care whether the tip got there in a smoothly accelerating, snappy, or punchy manner. It will spin just the same for all.
Click to expand...
The biggest factor for me in getting maximum effect with least effort is hitting the CB on the precise spot I intend to. Everything is in service of that.

pj
chgo
 
garczar said:
I've gone to shorter action. choked up some and deliver more of a 'punchy' hit but still follow thru. works great on most shots and is more accurate. if i have to really unleash on one i'll move grip hand back but on most shots the shorter action is more reliable.
Click to expand...
Best bar box stroke bar none.
 
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