How would get out from here?
- Thread starter Black Cat 5791
- Start date
short answer: depends on the table.
in general: fast cloth, center right to come 3 (or 4) rails. slow cloth, low left like this:
watch out for the scratch!
-s
in general: fast cloth, center right to come 3 (or 4) rails. slow cloth, low left like this:
watch out for the scratch!
-s
Black Cat 5791 said:START(
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I've got my way, what would you do?
Black Cat
This is a shot that is somewhat table condition dependent, but the way you've drawn it, I think it's within most peoples capabilities. IMO, adjusting for squirt and swerve are the key points.
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It's a pretty high spin/speed ratio shot, with the spin carrying it around the table. In our recent clinic with Nick Varner, we shot this shot a dozen or more times.
Fred
Well, I know my way. I don't know if it's smart, but hey, sack up and have some confidence in your stroke...that's the way I see it. I think my way is what bruin70 is referring to when he says "dangerously close to the side pocket".
Shoot the Z-stroke shot. Low outside english (or it might just be outside, not sure if the draw will do much for the shot...but I would shoot low anyways) with a medium/hard speed...well, hard enough to probably hit 2 cushions with the CB back to the top side of the table.
I am guessing the other way bruin70 was thinking is 4 cushions around to roughly the same destination as the above shot, using inside english of course. To me, that seems like a tall order, but of course, there are always people who can do things that another person cannot. There would seem to be less chance of scratching in this shot, but then again, it's hard to tell without actually being on the table.
Shoot the Z-stroke shot. Low outside english (or it might just be outside, not sure if the draw will do much for the shot...but I would shoot low anyways) with a medium/hard speed...well, hard enough to probably hit 2 cushions with the CB back to the top side of the table.
I am guessing the other way bruin70 was thinking is 4 cushions around to roughly the same destination as the above shot, using inside english of course. To me, that seems like a tall order, but of course, there are always people who can do things that another person cannot. There would seem to be less chance of scratching in this shot, but then again, it's hard to tell without actually being on the table.
Or on really really SLOW cloth, you can bank the 1 cross corner...but watch out for the double kiss!steev said:
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I can't imagine any tournament player shooting it any other way. A small complication is that it's on the bad side of the table for a right-handed player.Cornerman said:
Fred you've drawn it up the exact way I would have done it! You know who prefers the draw attempt depicted a few replies up.
I learned this from the Pro Book, and as your aware this route as do many take you through the middle of the table with no possibity of a scratch. But some would say that this is hot dogging it.
Hmm, makes you wonder.
Black Cat
Seriously though, if the 8 was dead frozen and splitting the end rail and i'm playing on a slow table, then I probably would just call a safety, pocket the 1 and freeze the CB on the end rail as shown.
If he comes up with a kick ass bank, then more power to him. It's probably more likely he'll miss the bank and give me a good shot on the 8 than me executing a good position shot on the 8 and making dicey cut shot down the rail (remember, this is me shooting, so the percentages may be different for a better player
).
EDIT: On second thought, I would not try to pocket the 1, but leave it hanging by the pocket. I would still call a safety just in case.
If he comes up with a kick ass bank, then more power to him. It's probably more likely he'll miss the bank and give me a good shot on the 8 than me executing a good position shot on the 8 and making dicey cut shot down the rail (remember, this is me shooting, so the percentages may be different for a better player
).EDIT: On second thought, I would not try to pocket the 1, but leave it hanging by the pocket. I would still call a safety just in case.
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As Black Cat showed it is the way to go.
I consider this Inside English shot a must to master.
I would be not happy if I didn't clean up from here more than 90% even with tight pockets. It's basically a natural angle with IE and follow. With grippy rails it will run across the center spot and toward the 2nd diamond, with sliding rails it will go closer toward the corner pocket. Almost the only way to mess it up if you stroke it ok is scratching in that corner, which is pretty unlikely.
I consider this Inside English shot a must to master.
I would be not happy if I didn't clean up from here more than 90% even with tight pockets. It's basically a natural angle with IE and follow. With grippy rails it will run across the center spot and toward the 2nd diamond, with sliding rails it will go closer toward the corner pocket. Almost the only way to mess it up if you stroke it ok is scratching in that corner, which is pretty unlikely.
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Well, looks like I've been overruled. Maybe the 4 cushion position isn't as difficult as I tend to think it is. It's probably just my own past experience discouraging me from it. I'm going to try it both ways next time I play and just see how it turns out.
Good Call
As usual I agree with cornerman. I think this is the best way to play it just because it takes pretty much all the possible scratches out of play.
Cornerman said:
As usual I agree with cornerman. I think this is the best way to play it just because it takes pretty much all the possible scratches out of play.
I knew a man...
A friend of mine some time ago...he did like to hit the balls with authority. He would definitely play it as Black Cat shows it. He would also give his personal philosophy..."Hey why use two or three rails when you can use four or five??"
He was only half joking and his point usually was to use the extra rail to approach the next ball head on...or to eliminate the chance of a scratch...as is possible here.
A friend of mine some time ago...he did like to hit the balls with authority. He would definitely play it as Black Cat shows it. He would also give his personal philosophy..."Hey why use two or three rails when you can use four or five??"
He was only half joking and his point usually was to use the extra rail to approach the next ball head on...or to eliminate the chance of a scratch...as is possible here.
The key to the 3-rail around shot is to make sure the cue ball gets between the first and second diamonds after hitting the one.
I had it several times where the cue ball slides after hitting the one and the cue hits past the second diamond and end up in the middle of the table by the side.
Just something to keep in mind.
The safety play or hanging up the one is not a bad option, depending on who you are shooting.
I really like the discussion on "how would you play this" scenarios. I always learn something.
SR
I had it several times where the cue ball slides after hitting the one and the cue hits past the second diamond and end up in the middle of the table by the side.
Just something to keep in mind.
The safety play or hanging up the one is not a bad option, depending on who you are shooting.
I really like the discussion on "how would you play this" scenarios. I always learn something.
SR
jsp said:Seriously though, if the 8 was dead frozen and splitting the end rail and i'm playing on a slow table, then I probably would just call a safety, pocket the 1 and freeze the CB on the end rail as shown.
If he comes up with a kick ass bank, then more power to him. It's probably more likely he'll miss the bank and give me a good shot on the 8 than me executing a good position shot on the 8 and making dicey cut shot down the rail (remember, this is me shooting, so the percentages may be different for a better player
EDIT: On second thought, I would not try to pocket the 1, but leave it hanging by the pocket. I would still call a safety just in case.
You've got to be kidding. Here you are presented with a chance to win the game, and the shot is not that difficult if you can hold a cuestick. Playing safe on this shot is ridiculous. You never know what could happen. Even if you leave your ball laying in the hole, what if somehow the guy gets lucky and leaves the 8 likes this:
You never know, it's possible. Now you would be left in a situation that is a helluva lot tougher to get out. If you have an opportunity to win, and the shot isn't that difficult, for heaven's sake, take the shot. Sure if you play safe, you leave your opponent tough, but like I said, you never know. Why let your opponent get to the table when you don't have to? It could cost you the game. If going 3-4 rails with inside english is tough for you, when the object ball is that close to the hole, you really need to practice that shot.
cuetechasaurus said:
Cuetechasaurus -
I pretty much agree with you and will give you bad rep point for your insightful post.
However, I can visualize some circumstance like very slow table with heavy cue ball and tight pockets where one might not be too confident of making the object ball and getting down the table.
If that were the case, you might think about a safety whereby you bank the object ball two rails to the the middle of the lower right rail, and stop the cue ball where the OB is in the beginning. This would leave your opponent with a bank to the side pocket, but very difficult time getting a shot on the 8 other than another bank from the opposite end of the table.
This would not be my first choice but I might consider it under certain conditions.
Cuetech...I don't disagree with what you said. I was just giving another option that would probably be better for a banger such as myself given tough conditions. Yes, on normal fast cloth, then I would be more than comfortable going the obvious 3-4 rail route. But what would happen if the cloth was very slow, and the 8 was frozen on the rail closer to the top left corner pocket (instead of the bottom corner)? Then things aren't as simple anymore, and I wouldn't think twice about shooting the safety.cuetechasaurus said:
As for the situation you provided, I would still have the advantage, because there's no reason for you to touch the 8 in your inning. Call a safety and hit the 1 (if I could again, I'd still leave the 1 by the pocket instead of pocketing the ball...but if you pocket it, oh well) and force your opponent to shoot the 8. You still have advantage.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just providing another option other than the obvious.