How Would You Play THESE? Three 3 ball runouts.

Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's say, for the sake of argument, you are playing in a tournament and this is your first turn on an unfamiliar table. You're a little nervous, new Simonis and you want to insure victory.


You have Ball In Hand. What would be your position zone for the 8-ball?

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Once again, you have ball-in-hand but a bit of traveling to do. What position do you want to attain on the 8-ball to get to the 9-ball? Why?

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Another traveling scenario but slightly trickier this time. What are your goals with ball-in-hand here?

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Layout 1: I like going forward 2 cushions on the 7 to get the CB around the center of the table and get a good angle on the 8.

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Layout 2: I'd like to be able to cut the 8 to my left, going 2 rails to get on the 9.

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Layout 3: Definitely a tricky layout. I like going 3 rails back and forth, making sure to his the opposite end rail, to get on the 8. Once you hit that point on the end rail, you're on the right side of the 8 and you have a few feet of travel where at worst, you have good options.

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I thought about this line to get on the 8 as well, but the position isn't nearly as reliable since you're crossing the angle of the next shot.

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????????????

If you can't get out with ball in hand from any of these diagrams,you need tp find a new game to play:eek: .
 
LILJOHN30 said:
If you can't get out with ball in hand from any of these diagrams,you need tp find a new game to play:eek: .
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In many ways, I'd like to agree with you but you'd be surprised how many competent players I see quickly get in trouble. They either travel when they didn't have to or avoid traveling when they should. Either way, the point more than anything is to show concerns when handling a situation which should always yield a win.
 

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First one.... simple is all that is needed. An angle on the 7 with just a touch of draw on the cueball to come down table for the 8. Being on the right side of the 8 leaves an easy drift over for the 9.

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Second example, cut the 7 in the side with a soft follow to come up past the side (easier reach) giving yourself an angle to the left off of the 8. Force follow the 8 with just a touch of left with speed to come up table for the 9.

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Last one.... angle off the 7 is lengthend even more with right english to come down past the 8 to give an angle to soft follow the cueball up to the 9.
Nothing fancy, but thats how I would play them.
Chuck
 
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good point

Jude Rosenstock said:
In many ways, I'd like to agree with you but you'd be surprised how many competent players I see quickly get in trouble. They either travel when they didn't have to or avoid traveling when they should. Either way, the point more than anything is to show concerns when handling a situation which should always yield a win.
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I think the bigger worry would be to take the layouts for granted and just miss a ball...:o
 
RiverCity said:

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I think I would use right spin on the 7ball to attain that angle but no matter - I think everyone should note how RiverCity has approached position on the 8-ball. Notice how he's cutting across the angle - All he has to do is make sure he's north of a straight shot and he'll have an easy route to the 9-ball. The key here, IMO is to make sure you avoid having to shoot a recovery shot. I think taking a two-rail approach as suggested before is complicating things.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Let's say, for the sake of argument, you are playing in a tournament and this is your first turn on an unfamiliar table. You're a little nervous, new Simonis and you want to insure victory.

You have Ball In Hand. What would be your position zone for the 8-ball?
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Something like this on the first. I would go one rail out. If I come up short, I could still go straight across and come back for the 9

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Jude Rosenstock said:
Once again, you have ball-in-hand but a bit of traveling to do. What position do you want to attain on the 8-ball to get to the 9-ball? Why?
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This I like just shooting a stop and then with a little high inside, coming back down for the 9

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Jude Rosenstock said:
Another traveling scenario but slightly trickier this time. What are your goals with ball-in-hand here?
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This one, I play the angle to come back up above the eight fin order to play it in the side. This angle is very generous when coming down for the 9. Lots of options.


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I am sure that there is some hidden senario here though being from Jude, but, after a night out drinking, I am not thinking totally clear on my abilities.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think I would use right spin on the 7ball to attain that angle but no matter - I think everyone should note how RiverCity has approached position on the 8-ball. Notice how he's cutting across the angle - All he has to do is make sure he's north of a straight shot and he'll have an easy route to the 9-ball. The key here, IMO is to make sure you avoid having to shoot a recovery shot. I think taking a two-rail approach as suggested before is complicating things.
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I don't disagree with you here, but I do think that level of comfort definitely comes into play when you're dealing with a table you're not familiar with. I think both routes offer the same level of predictability with respect to where the CB will travel. However, I chose two rails because I'm slightly more comfortable with that route, plus the second cushion helps fade the possibility of overamping a little and ending up way downtable (which I'm a little prone to do).
 
LILJOHN30 said:
What is that supposed to mean?:confused:
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I misread your post, then made some completely braindead response. No worries man!:D

I need less beer and more sleep.
 
2 cushions

MHarris said:
I don't disagree with you here, but I do think that level of comfort definitely comes into play when you're dealing with a table you're not familiar with. I think both routes offer the same level of predictability with respect to where the CB will travel. However, I chose two rails because I'm slightly more comfortable with that route, plus the second cushion helps fade the possibility of overamping a little and ending up way downtable (which I'm a little prone to do).
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On a unfamiliar table I have scene the 2 cushion route come up short many of times.The shot preference is up to the shooter and he should have some input as to how the table is playing.I normally use the 2 cushion route but I tend to try not to shoot the same shot the same way when practicing .This gives me practice with different shots.If iI had these layouts three different times in practice there would be three different patterns.
 
MHarris said:
I don't disagree with you here, but I do think that level of comfort definitely comes into play when you're dealing with a table you're not familiar with. I think both routes offer the same level of predictability with respect to where the CB will travel. However, I chose two rails because I'm slightly more comfortable with that route, plus the second cushion helps fade the possibility of overamping a little and ending up way downtable (which I'm a little prone to do).
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Hmm, what's interesting here is, I would use your route if I wanted to make sure I fell on the left side of the 8-ball. In this instance, since I want to fall on the right side, I'd go one rail. Of course, either can be used to attain identical positions but that just how I would go about it. In fact, by going one rail, you sort of fall directly into the correct position zone so it's really difficult to over-hit. By going two rails, you're cutting across it and an over-hit will yield a sharper cut than you want.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Hmm, what's interesting here is, I would use your route if I wanted to make sure I fell on the left side of the 8-ball. In this instance, since I want to fall on the right side, I'd go one rail. Of course, either can be used to attain identical positions but that just how I would go about it. In fact, by going one rail, you sort of fall directly into the correct position zone so it's really difficult to over-hit. By going two rails, you're cutting across it and an over-hit will yield a sharper cut than you want.
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Whenever possible, having the cueball arrive at its new destination by traveling on a line close to parallel to the line of the shot, leaves far more room for error in speed control than when crossing the line of the shot. Sometimes people overlook very simple patterns, filled with stop shots, 1 or even no rail positions, in favor of going 2 or 3 rails. Partly because they feel 3 rails look pretty and thats how they see the pros etc do it, and partly because they dont understand/remember that flashy is not always better.
Chuck
 
Jude;

How would you shoot the middle (2) scenario? I haven't seen the one I would use yet, especially since I am right handed.

Mike
 
One of the most informtive posts I've read

This thread is excellent.

I would not have considered some of the position routes mentioned, and think many would be better that what I could come up with on my own.

Furthermore, I'm going to set some of these up on my home table to have a look at.

I think I could learn something here.

Nice thread Jude, thanks
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think I would use right spin on the 7ball to attain that angle but no matter - I think everyone should note how RiverCity has approached position on the 8-ball. Notice how he's cutting across the angle - All he has to do is make sure he's north of a straight shot and he'll have an easy route to the 9-ball. The key here, IMO is to make sure you avoid having to shoot a recovery shot. I think taking a two-rail approach as suggested before is complicating things.
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I agree. The zome of comfortable position on the 8 is fairly huge, but the center of the zone is past a straight in shot. The situation you described is a very unfamiliar table. If you play position to go past the 8 ball slightly more than necessary, and conditions are slower than you think, you are straight in or nearly straight in and ok. If you go to far, it isn't as easy, but with a good stroke no problem at all. If you aim for perfect position, and you are short due to conditions, you could have the wrong angle and have a much tougher time.

I also agree what you said about the two railer in this situation, particularly given ball in hand.

Kelly
 
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can anybody make a ball here???

LILJOHN30 said:
If you can't get out with ball in hand from any of these diagrams,you need tp find a new game to play:eek: .
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LILJOHN is absolutely correct...
Nothing interesting there...
 
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