How would you play this?

L

lewdo26

Registered User will do
Silver Member
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This is a little basic, but it's one of those which-route-is-best percentage moves. Obviously you'd like to get around the middle of the table. But what's the best route?

I just got wind of a route that I didn't know previously, so I'd like to know your opinions. Thanks.

P.S. The 7 is frozen.
 
High left, medium-soft stroke, let the english carry it two rails to center table.

Depending on what angle you get on the 8, use draw to come back up for the 9 in the upper-left corner, or if you're not straight enough for that, low-right to come back off the rail for the 9 in the bottom left corner.

-Andrew
 
Small pocket, I roll it like this
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Bucket, I prefer to shoot like this, firmer stroke
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And you new way? This? look out for that tittie!
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Black-Balled said:
And you new way? This? look out for that tittie!
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Bingo. Phil Capelle actually diagrams the cueball coming short of the 9, rather than going around it. Which I thought was a little esoteric.

I'd shoot it exactly as you shot it. Low right if I felt comfortable I'd pocket the ball, high left two rails out otherwise.

Phil makes the argument that it's difficult to hold the cueball because the 7 is frozen. So he'd rather go around the world. He's trying to avoid getting like this:

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lewdo26 said:
Bingo. Phil Capelle ...rather go around the world. He's trying to avoid getting like this:

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Yeah, but I'd like to have that shot every game FOR SURE.
 
lewdo26 said:
Bingo. Phil Capelle actually diagrams the cueball coming short of the 9, rather than going around it. Which I thought was a little esoteric.

I'd shoot it exactly as you shot it. Low right if I felt comfortable I'd pocket the ball, high left two rails out otherwise.

Phil makes the argument that it's difficult to hold the cueball because the 7 is frozen. So he'd rather go around the world. He's trying to avoid getting like this:

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High does nothing for you on this shot. Stroke it very slowly with a ton of straight left english and be sure and hit ball and rail at the same time, or even ball first, but not rail first. You will hit the opposite rail at a much greater angle so that even with all the left you will come across closer to the eight.

unknownpro
 
unknownpro said:
High does nothing for you on this shot. Stroke it very slowly with a ton of straight left english and be sure and hit ball and rail at the same time, or even ball first, but not rail first. You will hit the opposite rail at a much greater angle so that even with all the left you will come across closer to the eight.

unknownpro
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Are you talking about the two-cushion route, unkownpro?

I experiemented with that position for about 30min yesterday. If I was to play a tournament tonight, I wouldn't go the 3 cushion route. I kept crashing into the 9.

My greatest success ratio was simply using right, and coming one rail out to the center. The pockets I played in yesterday were not tough, but not complete buckets either (GC III), and slowish cloth. I could afford hitting it a tiny bit thick or thin.

I'll try the two-railer today. Thanks again.
 
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also you don't need low and outside english on the other position route (straight back out).

unknownpro said:
High does nothing for you on this shot. Stroke it very slowly with a ton of straight left english and be sure and hit ball and rail at the same time, or even ball first, but not rail first. You will hit the opposite rail at a much greater angle so that even with all the left you will come across closer to the eight.

unknownpro
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I would personally go two rails out toward the center of the table using running english.

What's so bad about this?
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I'll take either of the above positions any day before I try this 3 rail crap. This is just beggin' for trouble.
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Hal said:
I would personally go two rails out toward the center of the table using running english.

What's so bad about this?
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I'll take either of the above positions any day before I try this 3 rail crap. This is just beggin' for trouble.
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Nothing bad. It's just that you could get flat with distance easy. The two-rail route requires more touch than it looks.

But I agree with you. I'll play that before I go 3 rails.
 
unknownpro said:
High does nothing for you on this shot. Stroke it very slowly with a ton of straight left english and be sure and hit ball and rail at the same time, or even ball first, but not rail first. ...
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I think that if you hit it ball first with left english, you will miss the shot nearly every time on a tight-pocketed table. I think it works much better to contact the rail first and to still be in the cushion when the cue ball hits the 7.
 
lewdo26 said:
Are you talking about the two-cushion route, unkownpro?

I experiemented with that position for about 30min yesterday. If I was to play a tournament tonight, I wouldn't go the 3 cushion route. I kept crashing into the 9.

My greatest success ratio was simply using right, and coming one rail out to the center. The pockets I played in yesterday were not tough, but not complete buckets either (GC III), and slowish cloth. I could afford hitting it a tiny bit thick or thin.

I'll try the two-railer today. Thanks again.
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Yeah, two rails.

For three rails I'd use the same english, but stroke harder catching a little rail first and hopefully hitting just above the side but spinning all the way under the 9 and over to the other side rail below the side and try to stop nearer the rail than the 8. This way the shot on the 8 can be rolled with left for two-rail position on the 9. But, like you said, the 9 is big there. And a lot depends on the rails and the cloth.

unknownpro
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that if you hit it ball first with left english, you will miss the shot nearly every time on a tight-pocketed table. I think it works much better to contact the rail first and to still be in the cushion when the cue ball hits the 7.
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Of course you will on some tables. The point is that if you hit too much rail first, the cueball will not get to the side rail quickly enough. If you can't get to the first diamond or above on that side rail you are hitting too much rail, too hard, or too high without enough sidespin. Wouldn't you agree?

I try to hit ball and rail at the same time. (Maybe I'm really doing what you said?) But to learn the stroke concentrate on the speed and the spin and the position, not making the ball. Once you get the stroke down for the position it's very easy to make the ball. (On my 4" outer measurement 6 year old worn to hell simoniz cloth at least.)

unknownpro
 
lewdo26 said:
Nothing bad. It's just that you could get flat with distance easy. The two-rail route requires more touch than it looks.

But I agree with you. I'll play that before I go 3 rails.
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I tried your shot on my table last night for a few minutes. For two-rail position I was able to hit the side rail above the first diamond, but only when stroked perfectly. I usually hit a little below. It is touchier than it looks on screen. The angle you have diagrammed is right at the limit of controlling that shot easily on my very worn very fast rails. Set up a little straighter it becomes much easier, but I'm sure you knew that already, LOL!

unknownpro
 
unknownpro said:
I tried your shot on my table last night for a few minutes. For two-rail position I was able to hit the side rail above the first diamond, but only when stroked perfectly. I usually hit a little below. It is touchier than it looks on screen. The angle you have diagrammed is right at the limit of controlling that shot easily on my very worn very fast rails. Set up a little straighter it becomes much easier, but I'm sure you knew that already, LOL!

unknownpro
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Hey, unknownpro. Yeah, the two-rail shot IS touchy. That's why the three railer comes up as a possibility. That way you don't have to finesse the CB.

Did you try just coming up one rail upstream with right?
 
unknownpro said:
... The point is that if you hit too much rail first, the cueball will not get to the side rail quickly enough. If you can't get to the first diamond or above on that side rail you are hitting too much rail, too hard, or too high without enough sidespin. Wouldn't you agree? ...
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Yes, but I think inside english always requires a cushion-first hit. This is the hit you will get if you just ignore the cushion as you will be subconsciously compensating for the throw, and the cue ball will contact the object ball while it is sinking into the cushion. If you aim for too much cushion first, the cue ball will contact the object ball as it is exiting the cushion, and the running english will be ineffective.
 
lewdo26 said:
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Another route is to play the shot with plain draw and hit two short rails. If you can control the spot on the second rail, you're guaranteed a good shot on the 8.

My preference (without actually trying it on the table) is play it with right draw.

For the left english two-cushion shot, unknownpro is correct that it does not require you to use any follow on moderately worn cloth. The cloth will put on full follow by the time the cue ball gets to the object ball. This is a common technique -- play a side-spin shot with draw or center so that the spin/speed ratio is increased as the cue ball slows at the start of the shot as it acquires normal roll.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Another route is to play the shot with plain draw and hit two short rails. If you can control the spot on the second rail, you're guaranteed a good shot on the 8.

My preference (without actually trying it on the table) is play it with right draw.

For the left english two-cushion shot, unknownpro is correct that it does not require you to use any follow on moderately worn cloth. The cloth will put on full follow by the time the cue ball gets to the object ball. This is a common technique -- play a side-spin shot with draw or center so that the spin/speed ratio is increased as the cue ball slows at the start of the shot as it acquires normal roll.
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I'll try that too and I'll get back to you.

Yeah, I always wondered why you get more spin using a low ball. I thought it was because it increased the friction with the cloth.
 
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