how would you shoot this shot?

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Doesn't matter --- if the hit is soft as with a kill shot. By the way, I've shared my definition of the kill shot at least 3 times here. Obviously you didn't read them which is precisely my point about the scientific community rejecting without trying to understand.
The reason I asked is for the point I mentioned above. If a player cannot keep side spin off their shots, anything close to a soft stun is a problem.
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The reason I asked is for the point I mentioned above. If a player cannot keep side spin off their shots, anything close to a soft stun is a problem.
to this, is hitting the shot with center axis-top particularly advantageous because it allows us to use a (more) level cue?
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Which is exactly what a kill shot accomplishes with the added bonus of a full stroke by the shooter (a non-dog stroke) and the cb going nowhere. (I'll tell ya --- you guys are stubborn. :) )

There's really not much wrong with a kill shot here. I'm assuming you mean what I call a drag shot,
because there's really no other way to kill CB speed on that particular shot at that distance.
Of course a stop shot kills speed after OB contact but that's not what's desired. Once you realize
you can't scratch no matter how you hit it and don't have to play position why would anyone care where
the CB ends up.
Some could argue this is one of those "personal preference" situations and I really wouldn't waste
a lot of time trying to dissuade them. I hear it all the time, on here, commentators on videos, down
at the poolroom and I don't argue about it.
However, my opinion is that while some situations are fairly close, usually one option is higher
percentage than the rest.
Something else I've noticed on this forum is that in threads such as these there is one guy who over
and over again consistently comes up with the most correct/highest percentage ways to address the
shot/situation being discussed.
Bob's evaluation is spot on. With stun/stop shots, in addition to higher speed, which others noted, he pointed out the huge
downside in regards unintended sidespin. That is also the main reason I'd reject the drag shot here.
The chance of a skid with either shot is negligible and probably about equal but one advantage with
the slightly above center, naturally rolling ball is that mishitting to either side of center will
be largely self correcting at that speed and distance. You also can use a normal smooth full stroke.
No need to pull your stroke on this shot, which by the way, is what I and many others do on a drag shot.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The reason I asked is for the point I mentioned above. If a player cannot keep side spin off their shots, anything close to a soft stun is a problem.
Where in any of my posts on this topic did I mention side spin? And just for the record, Bob, it's only a problem if the player fails. If a player prefers to use side spin, then let them experiment with it with side spin. Why stop them?
 
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evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes. That keeps any side from curving the cue ball as much.

thanks bob
I do enjoy shooting with the rolling ball
and I usually shoot well enough that way
I feel like it's a touchy shot for me tho
but I guess it's not the only one ^_^

to fran
was playing some tonight
trying to find good ways to play different shots
I found one that reminded me of your posts here
will post a pic when I get a chance
but I tried different ways on this one shot
and a nice one I found was killing the cb!
I've been a fan of dragging the rock
but this shot went down a little different
anyway, I'll post a pic tmmw-

thanks for the tips, everybody--
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
To make the pocket as large as possible (effectively, not literally), you want full roll on the object ball when it gets to the pocket. That's especially true for pockets that rattle if you hit the near point. This limits the upper speed of the shot so that the OB will have time to roll.
Drum roll please. The correct answer finally appears.
No argument here regarding how to effectively make the pocket bigger...

CJ would aim for the outside of the pocket and hit with TOI. Which throws the OB toward the center.

I would aim for the inside point and hit with TOO. Which throws the OB toward the center.

Those concerned about their ability to aim precisely should probably do whatever they need to ensure they perform the shot as Bob suggests.

As far as what the right answer is...., ...well that's subjective really. Fran likes the kill shot, some opt to roll, I perfer a smidge of draw/side. None are the wrong answer. The best answer is what ever makes you not dwell on how to do it. We all can justify our reasonings with rational thought, (for the most part) and back up our own assertions by experience. I think we all can agree that the worst thing to do while down on this shot is think about this thread.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The best answer is what ever makes you not dwell on how to do it.
Practicing your chosen method until it's second nature is what "makes you not dwell on how to do it".

Learning why one way is likely to work better than another teaches you what to practice.

pj
chgo
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Practicing your chosen method until it's second nature is what "makes you not dwell on how to do it".

Learning why one way is likely to work better than another teaches you what to practice.

pj
chgo
word....... (as in a bet you can't 'not' reply to it...lol)
 
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evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
to fran
was playing some tonight
trying to find good ways to play different shots
I found one that reminded me of your posts here
will post a pic when I get a chance
but I tried different ways on this one shot
and a nice one I found was killing the cb!
I've been a fan of dragging the rock
but this shot went down a little different
anyway, I'll post a pic tmmw-

thanks for the tips, everybody--

for anyone interested, I tried this shot different ways
not going for any particular cb position, just something nice
and not end up in the bottom of any pocket
(opposite side and far opposite corner were in play, for me)
outside right was a little touchy, due to chance of scratch
and honestly, my make % wasn't great in the first place
maybe coz I was concerned about cb? got in my head?

as said in above posts, there are often many ways to hit a shot
but I was surprised to discover that shooting with drag-draw-
center axis- I almost couldn't miss the ball
and position was center table
pretty cool..check it out
 

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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The important thing is do _something_ with the cueball. That's the ball that requires the precision. That and pocket speed which Bill Meacham pointed out.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
for anyone interested, I tried this shot different ways
not going for any particular cb position, just something nice
and not end up in the bottom of any pocket
(opposite side and far opposite corner were in play, for me)
outside right was a little touchy, due to chance of scratch
and honestly, my make % wasn't great in the first place
maybe coz I was concerned about cb? got in my head?

as said in above posts, there are often many ways to hit a shot
but I was surprised to discover that shooting with drag-draw-
center axis- I almost couldn't miss the ball
and position was center table
pretty cool..check it out
If that worked for you that's great. At the speed it takes to hold at center table on this shot and hitting center ball I'd be scared to death of CIT +/or a skid.
If position is not a factor here I'd be inclined to hit this shot center or slightly above on the vertical axis with a touch of right with the speed to go 2 plus rails.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The cut angle ---grazing across the ob as opposed to hitting it head-on (or close to head-on). Grazing across --- maximum loose grip, let the cb travel. Closer to head on --- not as loose in the grip, kill shot works. That's my personal preference.
Thanks, Fran.

Interesting that you use different grip pressures - is that for different speeds?

pj
chgo
 
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