how would you shoot this shot?

[evergruven]

If that worked for you that's great. At the speed it takes to hold at center table on this shot and hitting center ball I'd be scared to death of CIT +/or a skid.
If position is not a factor here I'd be inclined to hit this shot center or slightly above on the vertical axis with a touch of right with the speed to go 2 plus rails.

hey sparkle
to me, using the drag draw was also counterintuitive
but I believe what I see..I hit it 10 times and made it 9, cleanly
I don't know why it worked well, but there's a lot I don't know about pool
I do know that again, there are many ways to successfully play many shots
this way, for some reason, for me, seems to be one of them

 

[Patrick Johnson]

shooting with drag-draw-
center axis- I almost couldn't miss the ball
and position was center table

Sounds like a high throw shot. The fact that you make it better that way might mean that you tend to overcut it.

pj
chgo

 

[FranCrimi]

Thanks, Fran.

Interesting that you use different grip pressures - is that for different speeds?

pj
chgo

Yes, ultimately. It's for what you want to accomplish. I need to control the pool cue through the entire kill stroke. It's not a good stroke for allowing a release or slide of the pool cue through your grip hand because with a kill stroke, you pick the point in the stroke at which you max out the speed. But as for rolling the shot, allowing the pool cue to slide a little is fine.

 

[evergruven]

Sounds like a high throw shot. The fact that you make it better that way might mean that you tend to overcut it.

pj
chgo

hey pat, thanks for chiming in
I agree I wouldn't have dreamed up shooting the shot that way
if not for the fact I'm playing the mirror these days
admittedly I don't always "roll first" (or much) when I play
so I'll have to try that and see if you're right

 

[The_JV]

Yes, ultimately. It's for what you want to accomplish. I need to control the pool cue through the entire kill stroke. It's not a good stroke for allowing a release or slide of the pool cue through your grip hand because with a kill stroke, you pick the point in the stroke at which you max out the speed. But as for rolling the shot, allowing the pool cue to slide a little is fine.

This is interesting. I never really pay attention to the intensity of my grip. Other than making sure I'm not over doing it. I never let the cue slip at all through my grip hand.

Generally I don't use more than the first two fingers, unless we're speaking of a break shot type of power shot. Those two fingers press the cue into the webing of my hand and that's that. When I'm performing a delicate shots, I will use only one finger to "grip" and do focus on relaxing my wrist. My intention is to release the "mechanics" of my stroke, not the grip. Although I suppose you could say that's exactly what I'm doing by only using one grip finger rather than the usual two. My point was..., I would never let a cue shift at all through my grip hand.

Maybe this is someting I should experiment with.

 

[FranCrimi]

This is interesting. I never really pay attention to the intensity of my grip. Other than making sure I'm not over doing it. I never let the cue slip at all through my grip hand.

Generally I don't use more than the first two fingers, unless we're speaking of a break shot type of power shot. Those two fingers press the cue into the webing of my hand and that's that. When I'm performing a delicate shots, I will use only one finger to "grip" and do focus on relaxing my wrist. My intention is to release the "mechanics" of my stroke, not the grip. Although I suppose you could say that's exactly what I'm doing by only using one grip finger rather than the usual two. My point was..., I would never let a cue shift at all through my grip hand.

Maybe this is someting I should experiment with.

Definitely experiment with grip pressure and even grip type. Don't just grip the cue a certain way out of habit. Explore different options for different types of shots.

 

[The_JV]

Definitely experiment with grip pressure and even grip type. Don't just grip the cue a certain way out of habit. Explore different options for different types of shots.

I finally got a chance to hit some balls today. (Been away for business) I was out of line when I claimed to hold the cue the same but with only one finger with delicate shots. Truth is, I still have both fingers engaged but let the cue rest on them rather than push the cue into my hand webbing.

Still no slipping grip possible though.

It's neat how some things become so automatic over the years, that you loose perspective on what you are actually doing.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I just uncovered my table coming back from Aruba vacation and I'm about to try this shot. 10 shots each way. So far I have on the list:
1) low outside, med firm
2) high center rolling, soft
3) kill shot, low center, soft as possible to still kill
4) high center rolling, medium firm to get to the end rail with the CB

Any shots I missed? I will keep score and upload the video when I finish.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Results (cold, no practice beforehand of any of these shots, and I warmed up by hitting 10 random balls)
1) low outside, med firm: 8/10 make
2) high center rolling, soft: 10/10 make
3) kill shot, low center, soft as possible to still kill: 10/10 make
4) high center rolling, medium firm to get to the end rail with the CB: 10/10 make

Video (3 min long, full speed shots, setting up the shots cut out)

My thoughts:
1) -I was surprised I missed two with a bit of low outside. But the numbers don't lie This was my #1 choice before trying. It is probably further down the list now.
2) -The high center slow speed shot I said I would never shoot, I made 10/10. I felt like shot #2 (2 ball) was a slight hop when I shot it from the sound, even though it went center pocket. But when looking at the video, I did not see anything funny with it.
3) -The slow kill shot was 10/10. It had about the same CB reaction as the high center slow shot, but the CB was hit quite a bit firmer. 2 or 3 of these I hit a hair too hard and were more of a stop shot speed.
4) -The high center med-firm shot was 10/10. I think after trying all 4, this was my favorite.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I was surprised I missed two with a bit of low outside.

30/30 for three kinds of center axis shots, 8/10 for one kind of side spin shot. Do I detect a pattern?

Maybe also because it was your first 10 shots...?

pj
chgo

 

[iusedtoberich]

30/30 for three kinds of center axis shots, 8/10 for one kind of side spin shot. Do I detect a pattern?

Maybe also because it was your first 10 shots...?

pj
chgo

Who knows. To be honest, I've tried keeping statistics of various things over the past 15 years. When I thought I found a pattern, or an improvement, I'd mess it right up away again

 

[iusedtoberich]

BTW, I just wrapped up a ghost 9 ball set right now, and lost 3-7. I had two shots very similar to the shot in this thread. See video.

1st shot was a BIH shot slow roll shot with a similar angle (but a hair more). I was playing the CB to hit the long rail and bounce out a few inches for a slight angle on the 3. It didn't even get to the rail. It hopped bad and slowed down. You can't see it on the video, but I could tell immediately.

The second shot is almost identical to the shot in this thread in table position. But I had to draw it back a long distance for position. I hit it way too full, missed, and the CB never got to the long rail, instead it drew straight back (since hit too fun). The squirt on the CB was more than I anticipated for, that's why I hit it full.

 

[straightline]

The low outside at that speed was probably teetering on deflecting thick. Got a good look at the 8 ball jawing though. Thanks Bob J for the frame by frame tip.

 

[evergruven]

hey 'rich, they shoot stick in aruba? or was it a different kind of pool vacation
welcome back tho, and thanks for taking the time to make and share a vid
glad to see you (also) got something out of the exercise-
such seems to me to be the advantage of ze forum

 

[The_JV]

3) -The slow kill shot was 10/10. It had about the same CB reaction as the high center slow shot, but the CB was hit quite a bit firmer. 2 or 3 of these I hit a hair too hard and were more of a stop shot speed.

By my definition, none of those shots in this catagory was a true to form "kill" shot. Fran and I went through this already so I won't rehash. However, if I hit a kill with the balls in those spots. The CB would never make the rail. It may slide sideways a hair but that would be it. That point is moot, just saying...

After watching all the shots you performed, it looked as though the high center was the most comfortable for you.

My perference still being #1, I would hit much softer than you did. You catagorized both attempt 1 and 4 as "med-firm" stroke but if you play it back you're definitely hitting the low-outside harder. Both misses may have dropped at pocket weight, so someone wanting to defend an ideology may claim your comparison is flawed. I'm NOT saying that, but whenever I see a bear I just have to poke it...lol. I personally have stronger control of the CB hitting this shot at various amounts of power. Probably from years of playing circus draw shots as a banger....lol.