Hunter v Frost, your stance?

[BasementDweller]

I could actually teach him a lot about gracefully accepting a called foul by my opponent in a tournament I am absolutely dead money in, as Scott was in this event. Or at least in how to not mouth off to my opponent, bringing the situation to the attention of the referee...

Just a minor question...as I've read the term "dead money" a lot lately. Guess I'm not sure what it even means anymore. I've always thought of it as the players that have zero chance to even CASH, not the players that have zero chance to win.

It seems the term has really been extended in a derogatory manner towards the mid-level pros (and even above) that were never considered dead money in the past. Being good enough to go to any professional caliber tourney and make enough to cover your expenses is admirable in my book and not worthy of the label "dead money."

So, there's a difference between a Scott Frost and a Hunter Lumbardo and an amateur 600 level Fargo player. One of those 3 is dead money.

 

[JB Cases]

Social media blew up last night over the US Open match between Hunter and Scott Frost.
Tie match 8-8 going to 9 Scott shoots a great bank to get shape on one of his last 3 balls.

Stops to tuck in his shirt, gets over the ball and Hunter calls a foul for Scott's shirt touching a ball, which results in BIH and Hunter winning.
So many people are claiming Scott a national hero for shaking his hand after the match and that a shirt touching a ball without a ref or without moving the ball should not be a foul.

This seems like one of those polls that APA players put up where it says "my opponent did this, and I called a foul, was I wrong?"
And half the people say it is in the rules you are allowed to call it, the other half say, no way I'd do that.

So what do you say?

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. After arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball. Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Hunter is one of the most genuine and nicest humans I have ever known. He is a huge student of the game and is an excellent coach with many clients.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

 

[JB Cases]

i have seen the ugly side of scott in several matches
but in this case he handled himself very well
interesting it was hunter who would barely make eye contact on the hand shake at the end.
personally even if its the rule it was very nitty to call it
its like getting a speeding ticket for 2 miles over the limit

Hunter was disgusted by the situation. Scott had made a lot of other comments throughout the match. Anyone who knows Hunter knows that he is silent and respectful and all business during a match.

 

[JB Cases]

My understanding is that it is not a foul if you touch the ball and give the player the option to leave it or move it back!

Additionally, the ref is obligated to position himself in a place to make the call. The fact that the player was seated behind the shooter and had no way to make the call and never escalated it to a designated ref!

Given, the money difference between winner and loser of that match! FROZEN was robbed ....


Kd

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Hunter was in the perfect position to see the full shot clearly.

Scott was not robbed at all.

 

[Flakeandrun]

The fact that anyone can touch it and think that is not a foul, or that it's acceptable, is literally beyond logic in the first place...

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. Asher arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball. Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Hunter is one of the most genuine and nicest humans I have ever known. He is a huge student of the game and is an excellent coach with many clients.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Hunter was disgusted by the situation. Scott had made a lot of other comments throughout the match. Anyone who knows Hunter knows that he is silent and respectful and all business during a match.

Oh yeah. Scott HATES it when someone plays good on him, especially if he sees that person as a lesser player. I played him a few years ago at Derby, and he was NOT well behaved.

 

[jasonlaus]

Just a minor question...as I've read the term "dead money" a lot lately. Guess I'm not sure what it even means anymore. I've always thought of it as the players that have zero chance to even CASH, not the players that have zero chance to win.

It seems the term has really been extended in a derogatory manner towards the mid-level pros (and even above) that were never considered dead money in the past. Being good enough to go to any professional caliber tourney and make enough to cover your expenses is admirable in my book and not worthy of the label "dead money."

So, there's a difference between a Scott Frost and a Hunter Lumbardo and an amateur 600 level Fargo player. One of those 3 is dead money.

I just figure if I go to work every day and only pay for my gas to get there, I'm gonna starve to death - dead money

 

[easy-e]

Oh yeah. Scott HATES it when someone plays good on him, especially if he sees that person as a lesser player. I played him a few years ago at Derby, and he was NOT well behaved.

You played Scott at the Derby? Why haven't you mentioned that on here before?

 

[jtompilot]

Hunter was disgusted by the situation. Scott had made a lot of other comments throughout the match. Anyone who knows Hunter knows that he is silent and respectful and all business during a match.

Everyone knows what an a$$ Scott can be, and he got what he deserved. Unfortunately, the Ref and MR totally F-up the situation and seems like Hunter has been the primary fall guy.

 

[jtompilot]

You played Scott at the Derby? Why haven't you mentioned that on here before?

Scott did the same thing to me at Derby, and this has been mentioned several times.

 

[easy-e]

Scott did the same thing to me at Derby, and this has been mentioned several times.

I know, I'm just teasing Russ a little. He's posted on his Scott Frost match about 2.5 million times.

 

[u12armresl]

You played Scott at the Derby? Why haven't you mentioned that on here before?

Bwahahahaha

 

[The_JV]

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Right

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. After arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Don't know about who was a backer or not, but the rest is pretty darn close to 98% accurate. The last 2% is Scott's concession of BIH only came when the ref went to leave to collect the TD.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

I don't live in Hunter's head but I would agree with this

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball.

I agree

Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Scott argued with spectators about whether or not he fouled. Scott argued with the ref regarding the application of ruling of said foul. ....just to add clarity.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Wrong... He was treated horribly because a portion of the pool viewing public are asshats. Don't blame MR for humans being human. MR's revenue depends on engaging drama. Whether that be Ko's flawless beating of Yapp, or a set deciding conflict between to well known names in the American.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

Actually the players sign releases, so although "deserve" is a subjective word. He any every other player, including Mr Frost, shouldn't be put out by such press.

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

Good on you. I agree that Hunter is a victim here. Not by Scott, not by the spectators on hand (I didn't see you there), not by MR. He is a victim of the ill informed, self righteous, pool watching masses who have an axe to grind. Some of which of commented heavily in this thread.

 

[SBC]

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. After arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball. Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Hunter is one of the most genuine and nicest humans I have ever known. He is a huge student of the game and is an excellent coach with many clients.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

Well I see he's off to Austria....
He certainly works at it....time to get results.

 

[SBC]

I just figure if I go to work every day and only pay for my gas to get there, I'm gonna starve to death - dead money

What if you need JB cases to buy your gas?

 

[skogstokig]

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging.

wasn't it some random guy that filmed it?

 

[nicksaint26]

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. After arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball. Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Hunter is one of the most genuine and nicest humans I have ever known. He is a huge student of the game and is an excellent coach with many clients.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul yet he let Scott know he fouled while attempting his shot? Come on you don’t really believe this? If he didn’t want to call a foul he should have stayed quiet in his chair or called a ref over. Instead he interrupted a guy when he is trying to shoot by telling him he is fouling.

 

[pt109]

No foul was called by Hunter. He told Scott that his shirt was still touching and to watch it. He didn't call a foul and didn't call the ref.

Scott's friends/backers got involved and that prompted another spectator to disagree with them and that commotion brought the ref over. The ref decided that a foul likely occured and have Hunter ball in hand. Before Hunter picked up the ball Scott protested and Hunter returned to his seat. After arguing with the ref Scott reached over and moved the cue ball giving Hunter ball in hand.

Hunter had zero intention of calling a foul but he did not want Scott to touch the ball under his body.

Much was said about it but in fact Hunter was correct to warn Scott to be careful about touching the ball. Scott chose to argue when he could have simply called the ref and asked her to watch the shot. Hunter didn't argue.

Matchroom however chose to publish a video that they shot which was instrumental in Hunter being treated horribly for two days and he is continuing to get nasty comments sent to his private messaging. Matchroom used this to create more drama where it didn't need to exist.

Hunter is one of the most genuine and nicest humans I have ever known. He is a huge student of the game and is an excellent coach with many clients.

He didn't deserve to be used by matchroom for their "drama marketing".

He is the only professional player that I sponsor with monthly cash. In light of some of the nastiest comments calling for him to lose everything and be barred from pool I have doubled my sponsorship.

I agree with your appraisal of Hunter and I’m not surprised with your reaction, John…not afraid to be controversial, but big heart
Years ago, instructions to a snooker referee…..if for any reason you are uncertain about a call,,,,,you may ask onlookers for advice….but you must make the final decision.

At the Rack in Detroit, we had a great system…if you were one of the regulars and asked for a call, you had to give a call.
Nothing else would be said…..the saying was…..we don’t argue around here.

 

[Scrunge19]

How do we get 20+ pages of dialogue about something that happened between someone who is essentially a 1-pocket specialist at this point in their career and his opponent, a borderline professional who has practically no impact on the game? Sure Hunter may have caught some heat after this happened, undue or not, but 15 minutes after it happened the rest of the pool world went back to not even knowing who he is.

 

[Dead Money]

How do we get 20+ pages of dialogue about something that happened between someone who is essentially a 1-pocket specialist at this point in their career and his opponent, a borderline professional who has practically no impact on the game? Sure Hunter may have caught some heat after this happened, undue or not, but 15 minutes after it happened the rest of the pool world went back to not even knowing who he is.

How?....forum culture. This kind of thing is Not unique to pool forums only.