Hustling

[onepocketchump]

Maybe I'm on a downer today, but my initial reaction to this was that many people don't need to be drunk in order to be retarded, obnoxious asses!

LOL!

Seriously - I agree that it's morally questionable to take advantage of anyone's unclear thinking, whether their thinking is unclear because of alcohol, handicap, ego, psychological hangups, or whatever.

OTOH, it's not my responsibility to protect them from their own stupidity.

I think the key point for me is this: the hustler wasn't simply minding his own business and passively accepting a windfall that fell in his lap due to the kid's unclear thinking. Rather, he was proactively attempting to muddle the kid's thinking in the first place in order so that he could benefit.

Considered in that perspective, I actually think it's worse to take advantage of the kid than the drunk. The drunk screwed up his own head, so it's his own problem. The kid was baited.

Guess I'm a hardass after all.

You are right that the hustler was preying on the kid. The hustler however was counting on that kernel of greed in the kid that made him think he was the one who would be robbing the hustler. Because of that, both parties are guilty of wanting to get over on the other one. The difference is that one is better/more experienced at it than the other. Neither is in the right and there is no legal obligation for full disclosure when you are gambling with another person at pool. I always follow a don't ask, don't tell policy. If I match up with someone then I don't ask them how good they are and I don't tell them how good I am. I adjust if the game is out of line and expect them to adjust as well if it's out of line in their favor.

If I am asked how I played so-and-so then I always answer it honestly. As much as I hate to give or get weight, I do love to give weight to a nit and outrun the nuts just to shut them down. Sometimes people don't need the weight but they are scared and so they ask. Once in a while I will give weight to someone like that and having the weight will screw up their game to the point that they can't play because they are SUPPOSED to win.

John

 

[Zorro]

I have NO QUALMS about hustling the hustler. I have no problems with lying to them about my speed, the speed of my friends or anything else that traps them into playing. They would do it to me without thinking twice about it. No one who plays me for signifigant money is my friend and they are just looking to beat me out of whatever they can. So, whenever the chance is there to turn it around I laugh all the way to the bank.

I won't pick on the helpless though. If I get into a game with someone who is far below me then I will offer to adjust or just give them the money back and some advice.

Other than just not gambling on pool at all, I feel that this is the fairest way to approach it and keep my dignity. If someone gets arrogant with me and can't win I will make it a point to win as flamboyantly as possible since I am not above satisfying my ego either.

John

I couldn't agree more. Hustling a hustler is A-OK in my book. At the "hustler level" it's a matter of who can outwit who. Both are going into it with their eyes wide open. The money is wagered on who is the smartest game-maker, not on who plays the best. There are no dummies here, only some who are smarter than others--but all are intent of relieving the others of their cash!

A very wise gambler once told me, "The money is always made before you get on the table!" He was right. If you have the best of it, you will win more than not. A good "gambler" at pool is like a good poker player--he wants to convince his opponents that he is often bluffing, plays loose (makes bad games), but when you call him, he always seems to have the better hand! I feel good when I have outwitted a hustler and made off with the cash.

Last month I got to gambling with a guy who asked me to play only to find out he couldn't play a lick. I found myself laying down, pretending I didn't play well. It made me feel so bad that in the end I deliberately let him get even. I don't like the feel of that kind of hustle. It's not for me.

I only feel good taking advantage of players who are trying to take advantage of me (provided they are not total idiots). Is this reprehensible? I think not.

It happen nearly everyday where I play. The promise of a big score does wonders, ie, greed. Couple that with making them think you are a wounded bird. I'm sure you're heard gamblers negotiating for a matchup. "You can win a bundle (flashing a thick wad of hundreds totaling $5K to $10K)." "I haven't shot a ball in three months!" "I'll play you one-handed if you spot me two balls, and you know I never play one-handed." "I broke my arm in three places (brandishing a cast) and can hardly make a ball!" And always they state they're just looking for an even game. Don't you believe it! I have seldom met a pool player who in private didn't think he had the best of it. The exception is the earnest player who is trying to improve his game and either matches up even or deliberately gives up the best of it in order to stretch his game. Even he has high hopes of beating you, but he is actually "gambling" in the real sense of the word. Also, there is the "sucker" who only wants to play "name" players; he's just giving away his money!

Still, I never forget the old adage, "Children who play with fire are apt to get burnt!" You've got to know what you're doing, because while it may be a game to you, for some of your potential opponents it may be a "deadly" earnest pursuit. Avoid them! These low-lifes might stoop to anything to relieve you of your cash, including cheating you, drugging you, using what you mistake for real friendship to convince you (highly despicable), or even fingering you for a little armed robbery in the parking lot. I had a friend who flashed a lot of money in the pool hall and when he went home that night they were waiting for him in the bushes in front of his very own house!

 

[Varsity2016]

I was practicing at the local ph and I was watching this guy that plays pretty sporty, a good shortstop. Anyway, this young kid comes in with his girlfriend and another girl and he's banging the balls and he can't play a lick. This player asks him to play even for a few bucks and this player is stalling something awful. This kid can't get out with 3 balls left on the table! I don't know, I just don't like seeing someone get robbed like that. It's just so dishonest and I think this is one of the real problems with this game. There's just too many people in it that are so corrupt.

well yea i can see why u think its wrong but there both in it for the same reason, last year i was in the pool hall with my girlfriend and i was just goofing off when i was playing her because its not so much fun to run racks on your girlfriend so i was shooting stupid banks and 3 rail shots that i was missing and the regulars of the pool hall were watching me play and thought i sucked, one of them came up to me and asked me to play and i said ok and my girlfriend started laughing knowing that these kids thought that i was bad, they asked me what i wanted to play for so i told him race to 3 for $40 a set and beat the lights out of him

another time....which was last week at this pool hall this guy wanted to play me in 8 ball, so i told him i dont play 8 ball only 9 ball but i knew in either game i would beat him bad, so i went ahead and asked for a spot, he gave me a game to 4 and i shut him out the first set 4-0, he said lets play even, beat him 3 more sets until he quit

i think if players think the player who spent the time in the game deserves a "fish" once in a while

 

[rackmsuckr]

I rarely gamble but when I do, I like a fair game. (Hey Tina, remember playing that ring game with Ming Ng and I believe Lori Buendorf, and me several years ago? I came out ahead, how did you do?)

One time about 15 years ago, I was just learning one pocket. I knew how to break, in fact I could make a ball on the break every once in awhile. I already knew tangent lines and how to thin off a ball to get safe, etc. So this girl from up here asks me to play some one hole and I told her I was just beginning to learn the game. She said that was ok, she would give me the breaks and a couple balls. Now it's funny, because I can beat her in 9ball straight up and would probably need to spot her. I also don't think she knew how huge having the break was. During one game she thought she trapped me tight. I went and looked at the stack, called a dead ball, which zinged in and I ran out. She said, "I thought you said you didn't know how to play one pocket!" and I said, "I don't, but I know how to play pool!"

I honestly didn't know how I would do against her, but I was confident enough about my ability to win to test it, knowing I could quit at any time. She tried to get a live fish on the hook and ended up being thrown overboard. We need to be accountable for our actions and be prepared to lose and pay up when we make a bad game. On the other hand, I don't like it when I see players stalking their prey either.

 

[girlwon1]

I rarely gamble but when I do, I like a fair game. (Hey Tina, remember playing that ring game with Ming Ng and I believe Lori Buendorf, and me several years ago? I came out ahead, how did you do?)

No, I dont remember. I try to stay as far from Lori Buendorf as I can. If she is reading this she can try me giving her the 7.

 

[Williebetmore]

We need to be accountable for our actions and be prepared to lose and pay up when we make a bad game. On the other hand, I don't like it when I see players stalking their prey either.

Rack-girl,
A very admirable position, and well stated.

Though I do not play at an extremely high level, I have always tried to match up with as many good players as possible (including a number of world-beaters that I have no chance of beating even up). My only rule is that I will play someone ONLY if there is a chance I will have another friend afterwards (win or lose). As soon as it is apparent that an opponent is just a hustler/sore loser/nitwit then the game is over for me - life is too short to waste on such opponents, and there are a host of players who are good sports as well as students of the game (unless they all get turned off to the game as a result of the actions of the predatory few).

 

[Rickw]

I rarely gamble but when I do, I like a fair game. (Hey Tina, remember playing that ring game with Ming Ng and I believe Lori Buendorf, and me several years ago? I came out ahead, how did you do?)

One time about 15 years ago, I was just learning one pocket. I knew how to break, in fact I could make a ball on the break every once in awhile. I already knew tangent lines and how to thin off a ball to get safe, etc. So this girl from up here asks me to play some one hole and I told her I was just beginning to learn the game. She said that was ok, she would give me the breaks and a couple balls. Now it's funny, because I can beat her in 9ball straight up and would probably need to spot her. I also don't think she knew how huge having the break was. During one game she thought she trapped me tight. I went and looked at the stack, called a dead ball, which zinged in and I ran out. She said, "I thought you said you didn't know how to play one pocket!" and I said, "I don't, but I know how to play pool!"

I honestly didn't know how I would do against her, but I was confident enough about my ability to win to test it, knowing I could quit at any time. She tried to get a live fish on the hook and ended up being thrown overboard. We need to be accountable for our actions and be prepared to lose and pay up when we make a bad game. On the other hand, I don't like it when I see players stalking their prey either.

Linda,

I think it's one thing for a player to think they have an edge over another player and ask that player to play because of that but it's quite another thing to practice in front of someone and purposely play poorly to lure them into a game. Then, after getting their victim into a game, play just good enough to edge out the win when they could have easily won every game with no problem.