I have been aiming wrong for so long

nine_ball6970 said:
Keep trolling Stan. Why do you have to try and make every single thread about CTE? The topic of this thread is looking at cue ball vs object ball last. Why not expand on your view of why people should look at the cue ball last?
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No troll here. I think it is clear that you were prompting for a response from Chris for negativity about aiming systems...and for sure CTE is the largest target for those so motivated to be negative about aiming systems.

WHY CB last?
1., THE CUE BALL IS THE PRIMARY TARGET.
2, CTE TAKES ONE'S AIM TO CCB. THAT IS THE TARGET. See the target, hit the target.
3. There are lots of distortions in CB /OB relationships. CB last greatly helps in getting rid of steering.

Of note...all adjustments in CTE are made from the objective CCB target. Huge huge huge.
Having said all that.....nothing wrong with looking at the OB last. I do on some shots where there is no distortion.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
nine_ball6970 said:
stan shuffett said:
nine_ball6970 said:
Thanks for posting Chris. Lots of people value your opinion. Sounds like you already do what several studies have shown top players do when compared to amateurs. Would be interesting to hear your views on some of the threads in the aiming forum. LOL
Click to expand...

Chris asked me personally to work on aiming with his girlfriend. And I did so. Chris and and I discussed the difficulty in teaching how to convey what occurs in aiming.
So, LOL, I do not think Chris is going to be poking fun at CTE....or anything else in the aiming forum.
Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Keep trolling Stan. Why do you have to try and make every single thread about CTE? The topic of this thread is looking at cue ball vs object ball last. Why not expand on your view of why people should look at the cue ball last?
Click to expand...

No troll here. I think it is clear that you were prompting for a response from Chris for negativity about aiming systems...and for sure CTE is the largest target for those so motivated to be negative about aiming systems.

WHY CB last?
1., THE CUE BALL IS THE PRIMARY TARGET.
2, CTE TAKES ONE'S AIM TO CCB. THAT IS THE TARGET. See the target, hit the target.
3. There are lots of distortions in CB /OB relationships. CB last greatly helps in getting rid of steering.

Of note...all adjustments in CTE are made from the objective CCB target. Huge huge huge.
Having said all that.....nothing wrong with looking at the OB last. I do on some shots where there is no distortion.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Folks:

Do you see how this happens? One person (nine_ball6970) "hangs some meat out there" for another to bite on (stan_shuffett), and the parrying goes on from there. In this case, the comment "Would be interesting to hear your views on some of the threads in the aiming forum. LOL" is *going* to attract attention from the aiming folks, and sure enough, the bait gets taken.

And then the faux-innocence, "Why do you have to try and make every single thread about CTE? The topic of this thread is looking at cue ball vs object ball last." type of response.

The fact is, aiming systems had nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but yet it was mentioned as bait.

It's entertaining to watch these soap operas play out.
-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Folks:

Do you see how this happens? One person (nine_ball6970) "hangs some meat out there" for another to bite on (stan_shuffett), and the parrying goes on from there. In this case, the comment "Would be interesting to hear your views on some of the threads in the aiming forum. LOL" is *going* to attract attention from the aiming folks, and sure enough, the bait gets taken.

And then the faux-innocence, "Why do you have to try and make every single thread about CTE? The topic of this thread is looking at cue ball vs object ball last." type of response.

The fact is, aiming systems had nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but yet it was mentioned as bait.

It's entertaining to watch these soap operas play out.
-Sean
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I knew it was bait!!!

I just simply shared an exchange Chris and I had. No intentions from me to start a drama or anything of the sort.

I responded with facts.....ONLY!!

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I knew it was bait!!!

I just simply shared an exchange Chris and I had. No intentions from to start a drama or anything of the sort.

I responded with facts.....ONLY!!

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

I know, Stan. I'm just pointing out the bait, and then the faux-innocence defense from that same source.

-Sean
 
ronscuba said:
Question for those who focus on the OB contact point.

On cut shots, do you ever run into problems unintentionally steering the cue stick ?

For example on a cut shot to the left, the cue stick is not pointing at the OB contact point. It points parallel to the right of the OB contact point. When I tried focusing on OB contact point, I sometimes unintentionally steer the cue stick towards the contact point which results in a missed undercut shot.This sentence is a perfect reason for you to read "The Inner Game Of Tennis".
Click to expand...

No offense intended but if you "steer" the cue stick when you shoot then you have a serious fundamental flaw in your stroke(and in your head) and you should correct it. You must possess control over your own arm and not call it "unintentional" or you will never learn to play well.

ONB
 
stan shuffett said:
No troll here. I think it is clear that you were prompting for a response from Chris for negativity about aiming systems...and for sure CTE is the largest target for those so motivated to be negative about aiming systems.

WHY CB last?
1., THE CUE BALL IS THE PRIMARY TARGET.
2, CTE TAKES ONE'S AIM TO CCB. THAT IS THE TARGET. See the target, hit the target.
3. There are lots of distortions in CB /OB relationships. CB last greatly helps in getting rid of steering.

Of note...all adjustments in CTE are made from the objective CCB target. Huge huge huge.
Having said all that.....nothing wrong with looking at the OB last. I do on some shots where there is no distortion.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Actually I would like to know what Chris' thoughts are on aiming systems. That applies to other pros as well.

So you say people only steer because of distortion? How do you know if there is distortion or not on a particular shot?
 
Old Nine Baller said:
No offense intended but if you "steer" the cue stick when you shoot then you have a serious fundamental flaw in your stroke(and in your head) and you should correct it. You must possess control over your own arm and not call it "unintentional" or you will never learn to play well.

ONB
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My normal focus point is on the aim line. The line the CB rolls on. My cue stick and tip start and finish on this line. I don't have a steering problem when I use my normal aim routine. Out of curiosity I tried focusing on the OB contact point last. When I did this on cut shots, I tended to steer. Could be because it is different from what I normally do.
 
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cleary said:
I've tried and tried and tried to look at the object ball last and I just can't do it. I gotta look at the cueball.
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how good do you play??
no disrespect intended ....:)
there are always pros that dont follow the conventional wisdom
to me conventional wisdom is look at the object ball last
the idea is you hit what you are looking at
icbw
 
Both way works. Like black and white, questions and answers - same thing.
You can train your abilities in both ways to strengthen everything.
I look at the OB last (break and cue raise I look at CB last) and that was what I started with and right now anyway that is the way I think I get the most information of.

Beware though, by trying out so many things you learn so many things and then you have a really hard time to logically choose the system for you when you play:p.

When on Auto mode though it has strengthen my game anyway.

Btw - no instructor and this is "IMO".

Regards

Chrippa
 
ronscuba said:
My normal focus point is on the aim line. The line the CB rolls on. My cue stick and tip start and finish on this line. I don't have a steering problem when I use my normal aim routine. Out of curiosity I tried focusing on the OB contact point last. When I did this on cut shots, I tended to steer. Could be because it is different from what I normally do.
Click to expand...

Not knowing you I would have to guess you are correct. You are trying something new to you and the anxiety caused by not be familiar with it causes you to revert to what was comfortable, hence the steering.

You just need to keep shooting the cut shots until you are comfortable with your aiming line and then it'll be natural to shoot straight through without steering.

Many top players have bad habits like this so you are in good company. Just don't start jumping up:D.

ONB
 
real bartram said:
You got it right .
Look at object ball last when you shoot
A pause is good to get more time to look at the object ball
I look at cue ball last when I break or shoot over a ball
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Chris,
I know you are a champion and you know what you are talking about. I agree with everything you said above.

But for discussion, I recently played an opponent who played 9 ball extremely close to my speed (which isn't near pro level speed) and he jumped balls with incredible accuracy, looking at the object ball last. His jumping accuracy was at pro level and it makes me believe that for SOME, going against what works for most people might still be a consideration for those who want to improve their game, especially if the STANDARD is getting the job done.

The truth is I tried looking at the object ball last when jumping but my accuracy diminished. I will try it some more when I have some worn out cloth to practice on.

Oh yeah, he also looks at the one ball when breaking nine ball and breaks incredibly hard, however I did win our match by a small degree, probably just because of stealth.

This guy is the only guy that I have ever met that looks at the object ball last when jumping and is incredibly accurate. I wonder if there are others like him.


JoeyA
 
There are good arguments to be made for both methods.

Of late, I am in the CB last camp.

Once I have my aiming line established, with my stance and bridge set, it is not changing, and the OB is not going to move from its original position. (DUH!!!)

I look at the CB last to monitor my stroke, to make sure I use the correct amount of English, and that I have a clean and straight piston-like follow-through.

I cannot see my stroking arm, but I can see what my tip is doing, which telegraphs what my grip hand and elbow are doing.

Here's hoping you find what works for you.
 
After reading this thread the other day I got to thinking, so I went out to play tonight intent on figuring out what I look at (cause I really had no clue). I dont think much while Im playing. I line up on the shot with my stance and get down on the shot, check where Im cueing the ball, take a couple of warm up strokes and fire.
My answer..... I dont look at either. I figured before I shot a ball that I would be focused on the ob last. I tried staring at it and had little success. Then I thought, well lets try the cb last...... couldnt hardly make a ball. I stood up and had a good laugh. Neither felt natural to me. I went back on auto pilot and got down on the shot, and the best way I can explain what I see is like a photograph of the shot from a shooters perspective behind the cb. My eyes are looking down the line of the shot without a hard focus on either the cb or the ob. I go into an almost 2 dimensional view of the table. Sounds odd I know, but Ive been successful with it for many years.
The weirdest thing for me was that if asked, I would have said I look at the ob last..... well, nope. I dont look at either..... :grin:
Chuck
 
real bartram said:
You got it right .
Look at object ball last when you shoot
A pause is good to get more time to look at the object ball
I look at cue ball last when I break or shoot over a ball
Click to expand...

short, succinct and very accurate :)

Your hands follow your eyes. Thus, by looking at the object ball last, you are telling your brain where you want to go, and how you want to get there.

Ever drive down the street and notice a very pretty woman jogging on the sidewalk. Yeah, you can glance once and take a little peek, but if she is really pretty you look a little longer, and before you know it, you are driving your car towards the curb !!!

Same reason the catcher gives the pitcher a target, he is looking only at that catchers mitt when he releases the ball. Because he knows the same principle. It's kinda hard for us to fool the brain, but very easy for the brain to fool us ;)
 
When I'm in dead punch, I never look at the CB...my aiming is done over the shot, when I step into it. I can see the CB and tip out of my peripheral vision, all I need. I need to see the CB hit the OB to confirm my success. I might glance at the CB/tip alignment on some shots, but only if I consciously do it, and as often as not, I'll screw it up. I've always played this way, it works for me. I've tried to analyze it, change it up a little, but always go back.
 
The other day I was about to pocket a little crosser, to win a game of One Pocket, when the girl at the next table bent over to fire in an eight ball.
Not only did I take my eye off the object ball, I miscued and sent the cue ball crashing into her boyfriend's beer.
The doctor said I could take the bandages off in about a week. :wink:

Hi, guys.
 
Chuck Fields said:
After reading this thread the other day I got to thinking, so I went out to play tonight intent on figuring out what I look at (cause I really had no clue). I dont think much while Im playing. I line up on the shot with my stance and get down on the shot, check where Im cueing the ball, take a couple of warm up strokes and fire.
My answer..... I dont look at either. I figured before I shot a ball that I would be focused on the ob last. I tried staring at it and had little success. Then I thought, well lets try the cb last...... couldnt hardly make a ball. I stood up and had a good laugh. Neither felt natural to me. I went back on auto pilot and got down on the shot, and the best way I can explain what I see is like a photograph of the shot from a shooters perspective behind the cb. My eyes are looking down the line of the shot without a hard focus on either the cb or the ob. I go into an almost 2 dimensional view of the table. Sounds odd I know, but Ive been successful with it for many years.
The weirdest thing for me was that if asked, I would have said I look at the ob last..... well, nope. I dont look at either..... :grin:
Chuck
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I think this pretty accurately describes what I was doing before, except it was certainly not working as well for me. Before if you had asked me I would have said that I look at OB last. It really was pretty odd for me when I figured out that I was not doing that at all. While it also does not feel natural to me right now I have seen that at least for me personally I need to get in the practice time so that I will eventually be more comfortable doing that and I will be able to do it without thinking.
 
At 49 yrs. old, my eyes ability to quickly change focus is getting weaker and weaker.

Currently, after establishing my aim line, I focus on the line at a spot approx 12" in front of the CB. This is a target for my tip and shaft. My final last look is neither the CB or OB. It's worked well for me.

Last night I revisited OB last. Worked fine on short or medium length shots, but on long shots my eyes had trouble changing focus from CB to OB. The OB was a fuzzy mess because my eyes cannot quickly change focus on long shots.

I think IF I am going to change to OB last, I need to change my routine to a quick glance at the CB to check tip position and then longer at the OB to let my eyes focus. Standing a little taller also helped my eyes focus on the OB.

Definitely will give it a try. I think OB last has a side benefit of helping you stay down on the shot since you do not have to fight the instinct to look up. I might also try both methods depending on the shot. OB last on short/medium shots and spot on the aim line for long shots.
 
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