tedkaufman said:
I agree I have found in APA play that people slopping balls in has played a very small, almost non-existent role in the outcome of the match.
I joined my first APA league last night
- Thread starter NeZ
- Start date
I agree I have found in APA play that people slopping balls in has played a very small, almost non-existent role in the outcome of the match.
I have never understood what the big deal with slop was anyway. For the most part, the ball made on the break was a slop shot. Watching the pros slop one in usually gets a slight sympathetic gesture from the shooter to the opponent, but notice the balls are never pulled? IMO, if the hit on the o.b. is legal, so what if a ball is accidently knocked in. If you want to play a "call-your-shot" game, then specify so before starting the game. If you're in a league or tournament that has black-and-white rules, then you are at the mercy of the organizers.
Maniac
Maniac
tedkaufman said:
Ever stop to think that folks who don't like the slop rule don't like it not because THEIR games are sloppy, but their OPPONENTS' games are...?
The next time you see a seven lose to a three, because the three got some lucky slops in, ask him (a "top player", according to his handicap) if he dislikes the slop rule or not.
You can defeat that type of sandbagging: just mark a saftey for every one of those instances I've highlighted above.Maniac said:
Cory
Cory in DC said:
Exactly! That kinda player will make noises and gestures to make you think he didn't miss it intentionally - and depending on how good an actor he is, you should be able to tell genuine distress over faked distress. Mark those safeties!
FYI (for the original poster) every safety marked against a player basically cancels out an inning - and the way to sandbag is to have high inning counts. So the more innings cancelled out by safeties means that player isn't gaming the system as much as he'd like.
ScottW said:Ever stop to think that folks who don't like the slop rule don't like it not because THEIR games are sloppy, but their OPPONENTS' games are...?
The next time you see a seven lose to a three, because the three got some lucky slops in, ask him (a "top player", according to his handicap) if he dislikes the slop rule or not.
If a "7" loses to a "3", he has more than a few slop shots to blame for it. Inevitably, when my opponent is inordinately lucky, it occurs when I play poorly.
As much as I hear all the crap about the APA, its what you make of it.
I mean where else can you play in a league min. 12 times a year at the least, and have a chance to goto Vegas!!! not including your city tournys that determine who goes.
I mean I just joined a second APA league in my city that has 20teams in it, two 10team divisions and its pretty competative, vs the Weds nite league with only 6teams, in the same city.
And yes slop is part of the game, and it either sucks or you like it, depending on which end of the deal your on.
I like it because its introduced me to alot of new people, and I've gotten several new players to join up on my 8ball team. Which still keeping our 4 core players so we can automatically get into the city tourny
And yea alot of the sandbaggin is from places who dont mark safties or intentionally dump games, which puts a black eye on everyone in the APA.
And I dont tell anyone to dump thier match, i just tell them I do handicap management, where they will play against someone they shouldnt beat, but if they do oh well, not much i can do about that.
I mean where else can you play in a league min. 12 times a year at the least, and have a chance to goto Vegas!!! not including your city tournys that determine who goes.
I mean I just joined a second APA league in my city that has 20teams in it, two 10team divisions and its pretty competative, vs the Weds nite league with only 6teams, in the same city.
And yes slop is part of the game, and it either sucks or you like it, depending on which end of the deal your on.
I like it because its introduced me to alot of new people, and I've gotten several new players to join up on my 8ball team. Which still keeping our 4 core players so we can automatically get into the city tourny
And yea alot of the sandbaggin is from places who dont mark safties or intentionally dump games, which puts a black eye on everyone in the APA.
And I dont tell anyone to dump thier match, i just tell them I do handicap management, where they will play against someone they shouldnt beat, but if they do oh well, not much i can do about that.
I hope your team just wants to have fun, and doesn't care too much about winning. If your team wants to win, you are going to learn the art of APA sandbagging.
I don't mean to ruin the mood, but the APA promotes sandbagging, and penalizes players when they get better. The rules are pathetic. Slop counts, stuff like that. Just play it for fun, but don't expect your game to improve past a 'C' level player. The APA has the exact opposite effect on your game, that I can guarantee. The APA is about competiveness, and working the system to win. One who looks over the format might think that the league is actually AGAINST the improvement of one's game.
I don't mean to ruin the mood, but the APA promotes sandbagging, and penalizes players when they get better. The rules are pathetic. Slop counts, stuff like that. Just play it for fun, but don't expect your game to improve past a 'C' level player. The APA has the exact opposite effect on your game, that I can guarantee. The APA is about competiveness, and working the system to win. One who looks over the format might think that the league is actually AGAINST the improvement of one's game.
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I hope they don't as well it spoils a good night out. It's nice to win, but it is more important to play your best. As I suggested before anybody who makes winning a trip to Vegas the crowning acheivement of their life, is pretty pathetic.cuetechasaurus said:
They don't promote sand-bagging. Handicap systems promote sandbagging and they have a handicap system. I have never seen a tournament that gave out cash prizes and had a handicap system of any kind which didn't result in sandbagging. The place sandbagging is most often learned is in the realm of gambling on pool. Those players then bring their sandbagging techniques into the APA where they fit quite nicely.
Many, many players improve beyond a 'C' level (whatever that exactly is), but I will admit it might not be a good idea in terms of winning. Furthermore the APA is intended for average players, it is mostly some of the better than 'C' players who are doing the outrageous sandbagging and screwing it up for others.
Again I have to emphasize the "slop" allowed business is way over stated. I would prefer that slop didn't count, but in my experiences it is a miniscule factor in the outcome of any match.
The APA would be better if the no sandbagging occurred, but that's pool everywhere not just the APA. The APA is not really designed for top players and if you don't like to gamble leagues like the APA are the only place to find games on a regular schedule. Ever tried to walk in a pool hall and just pick up a game if you don't gamble? It isn't as easy as people suggest. I say the APA is a good thing, when taken for what it offers.
That said I haven't played in the APA in a while, but I would tomorrow if the right bunch of people came along. A bunch where playing and enjoying was the priority. Winning should be a goal not THE goal.
I'm sorry
but the right bunch of people for me would mean that we would be way over the handicap limit .... lol I played in the APA when they were no limits (can you remember that far back!), started as a 6 after 1 week, a 7 2 weeks later, and that is where I stayed. There were 2 other 6's on the team, and a 5.
There was a slight adjustment period before other team members realized that I was the best one to coach and be the anchor person on the team.
The 23 rule is a joke, to me. Might as well call it, 'be nice to beginner's rule'.
Any 5 and above will get tired of repeating the basics to 2 and 3's at least 4,000 times during a session of Pool. Don't kid yourself, people want to have fun, but any 5 and above that says winning is the main thing is lying.
Valley and BCA (ACS) are much better leagues, and many inhouse leagues are better than the format and play of the APA. People that win big in the Nationals at Vegas are considered jokes compared to the Valley and BCA, where the real players are.
but the right bunch of people for me would mean that we would be way over the handicap limit .... lol I played in the APA when they were no limits (can you remember that far back!), started as a 6 after 1 week, a 7 2 weeks later, and that is where I stayed. There were 2 other 6's on the team, and a 5.
There was a slight adjustment period before other team members realized that I was the best one to coach and be the anchor person on the team.
The 23 rule is a joke, to me. Might as well call it, 'be nice to beginner's rule'.
Any 5 and above will get tired of repeating the basics to 2 and 3's at least 4,000 times during a session of Pool. Don't kid yourself, people want to have fun, but any 5 and above that says winning is the main thing is lying.
Valley and BCA (ACS) are much better leagues, and many inhouse leagues are better than the format and play of the APA. People that win big in the Nationals at Vegas are considered jokes compared to the Valley and BCA, where the real players are.
"Just play for fun."
Huh? Are going to get your pro tour card after the session? Are you a sponsored APA league shooter?
Of course it's just for entertainment purposes, for fun, you nitwits!@#
I mean, what ultra competitive league is setup with a handicap system?
Huh? Are going to get your pro tour card after the session? Are you a sponsored APA league shooter?
Of course it's just for entertainment purposes, for fun, you nitwits!@#
I mean, what ultra competitive league is setup with a handicap system?
The APA is a league designed for average amateur players. It also happens to have more members than any other league in the country. Seems like an awful lot of players go out each week and just have fun playing pool with friends. You can handle it two ways. You can get all serious about it and get your blood boiling if you think someone is sandbagging...or you can take it for what it is supposed to be....FUN!
If I want serious competition, I will find a tournament to play in. APA should be fun, and for me, that is all it is. I enjoy it every week.
Steve
If I want serious competition, I will find a tournament to play in. APA should be fun, and for me, that is all it is. I enjoy it every week.
Steve
I had my first set last night and lost. D'oh!
Since I'm new I started as a 4 and I played a 3. He had to win 2 games before I won 3. He was an okay player but I probably should have won. I didn't play very well. I think I was a bit nervous since it was my first match and all and because I'm on a team with folks I don't know.
He won the 1st game, I won the 2nd, and then he won the 3rd came to take the set.
I made a couple good runs but then either missed easy shots or left myself without a good shot.
It was a fun time though and I'm looking forward to playing again. Hopefully, with better results.
Since I'm new I started as a 4 and I played a 3. He had to win 2 games before I won 3. He was an okay player but I probably should have won. I didn't play very well. I think I was a bit nervous since it was my first match and all and because I'm on a team with folks I don't know.
He won the 1st game, I won the 2nd, and then he won the 3rd came to take the set.
I made a couple good runs but then either missed easy shots or left myself without a good shot.
It was a fun time though and I'm looking forward to playing again. Hopefully, with better results.
League pressure seems to have it's own peculiar quality. Hope it was fun!
You'll likely drop to a three for your next match. Don't feel insulted if you think you should be higher. Good luck!
Wait, aren't you on a team with three girls? Uh oh, you might have used up all your good luck already!
You'll likely drop to a three for your next match. Don't feel insulted if you think you should be higher. Good luck!
Wait, aren't you on a team with three girls? Uh oh, you might have used up all your good luck already!
NeZ said:
I'm sure your captain is overjoyed with the loss. It means you'll be a 3 for several weeks regardless of your level of play.
ruk
Deadstroker
Registered
just a bunch of crybabies and cheaters that have been busted
First of all I want to congratulate you on joining team in the largest most fairly handicapped, best run pool league in the world. You will get better as does everyone that joins a team. The people that are giving you advice on how everyone cheats are full of it themselves. They are the ones that have tried to abuse the handicap system and failed. If you read posts on this site you will continually find whining and complaining from poor sports that are in it for themselves and never in it for the fun of playing pool or for the team. If you want to continue to improve your game and meet other people that enjoy playing pool then stick with it and have some fun.
Those that complain are mainly just miserable human beings in all aspects of their lives and absolutley hate to see others enjoying themselves so they must try to ruin your fun and make you miserable too. It is really kind of sad that so many players, be it pool, golf, bowling, darts or tidlywinks will always find something to ***** about and someone or something to blame for their shortcomings. Have fun and welcome to THE LEAGUE.
First of all I want to congratulate you on joining team in the largest most fairly handicapped, best run pool league in the world. You will get better as does everyone that joins a team. The people that are giving you advice on how everyone cheats are full of it themselves. They are the ones that have tried to abuse the handicap system and failed. If you read posts on this site you will continually find whining and complaining from poor sports that are in it for themselves and never in it for the fun of playing pool or for the team. If you want to continue to improve your game and meet other people that enjoy playing pool then stick with it and have some fun.
Those that complain are mainly just miserable human beings in all aspects of their lives and absolutley hate to see others enjoying themselves so they must try to ruin your fun and make you miserable too. It is really kind of sad that so many players, be it pool, golf, bowling, darts or tidlywinks will always find something to ***** about and someone or something to blame for their shortcomings. Have fun and welcome to THE LEAGUE.
The APA is a great way to ......
Meet a lot of good pool lovers like yourself without the hastles of hustlers and of course the hustler WANNABEES that seem to plague most bars and pool halls!
I have played and mostly enjoyed APA since 1981 I have made some great freinds that I would have never had the opportunity to have met otherwise!
Now you will hear all the APA i hate them stories (mostly told by folks that may not have even ever played the league just heard them and are passing along a good story !
some of them from folks that played unfortunately on a bad team or bar and did not stay long enough to figure it out!) some of these stories include but are not limited to the ...
1) "everyone sand bags!!!"
LMAO! some do but this is everywhere even in weighted tournys! the point is you will find out soon enough who these folks are and a good captain will know how to handle them!
2) "its slop city!!!"
If you are depending on slop you will not go far or long in any playoffs since there are some really good and serious players in the league ! (I have been fortunate to have played on some good teams and have made the city finals many times and the Nationals 5 so I have seen a great many of the leagues great players and have had a lot of fun doing so!
Now the great parts!!!
Its a ton of fun if you look at it for what it is intended to be!!!!!
you will learn a lot about pool ! about your own game! and make a ton of good long lasting like minded friends !
Now where else can ya do all of that and get all expense paid trips to sin city and get to start the process all over again at a higher level and maybe win some Cash and nice prizes to boot????
Meet a lot of good pool lovers like yourself without the hastles of hustlers and of course the hustler WANNABEES that seem to plague most bars and pool halls!
I have played and mostly enjoyed APA since 1981 I have made some great freinds that I would have never had the opportunity to have met otherwise! Now you will hear all the APA i hate them stories (mostly told by folks that may not have even ever played the league just heard them and are passing along a good story !
some of them from folks that played unfortunately on a bad team or bar and did not stay long enough to figure it out!) some of these stories include but are not limited to the ...1) "everyone sand bags!!!"
LMAO! some do but this is everywhere even in weighted tournys! the point is you will find out soon enough who these folks are and a good captain will know how to handle them!2) "its slop city!!!"
If you are depending on slop you will not go far or long in any playoffs since there are some really good and serious players in the league ! (I have been fortunate to have played on some good teams and have made the city finals many times and the Nationals 5 so I have seen a great many of the leagues great players and have had a lot of fun doing so!Now the great parts!!!
Its a ton of fun if you look at it for what it is intended to be!!!!!
you will learn a lot about pool ! about your own game! and make a ton of good long lasting like minded friends !
Now where else can ya do all of that and get all expense paid trips to sin city and get to start the process all over again at a higher level and maybe win some Cash and nice prizes to boot????
NeZ,
When you go out for league, just go out and enjoy yourself. don't let those that complain about the system dampen your spirits or your fun. Generally speaking, those that complain about sandbagging are those that are responsible for it themselves. One of the posters summed it up best..... when he spoke of seeing it run rampant but nothing was done about it. That they "say" you can complain but he never saw anyone do it. Well, apparently the poster never complained either, or didn't keep score properly. The APA system is based on the players and the teams being HONEST. Not just the team that is "cheating" but also the team they are playing. If you are playing a team that you feel like is "cheating" then it is YOUR responsibility to report it. YOU must mark the defensive shots. YOU must keep correct innings and correct scores. Trust me, if you keep your information correctly the system can take care of itself. It is only when TWO teams - together - fail to keep score properly that teams get away with this. Yes, there are some players who are of "known ability" that try to abuse the system, but if the players report them as well, then the League Operator can take action. Don't just say "Joe Blow plays like a 7".... explain that he is a Master Player in another league so that the League Operator actually understands this. A lot of league operators aren't privy to knowing all of the players in the other leagues.
My point is this: Don't let someone else ruin your fun. Do your job and play pool, the system will take care of itself. The APA is a fun, competitive league where those that put together the proper team, keep score properly and have fun do have an opportunity to "go all the way" and when they do, they won't have to worry about being disqualified. It is teams like yours that the APA encourages and protects.
When you go out for league, just go out and enjoy yourself. don't let those that complain about the system dampen your spirits or your fun. Generally speaking, those that complain about sandbagging are those that are responsible for it themselves. One of the posters summed it up best..... when he spoke of seeing it run rampant but nothing was done about it. That they "say" you can complain but he never saw anyone do it. Well, apparently the poster never complained either, or didn't keep score properly. The APA system is based on the players and the teams being HONEST. Not just the team that is "cheating" but also the team they are playing. If you are playing a team that you feel like is "cheating" then it is YOUR responsibility to report it. YOU must mark the defensive shots. YOU must keep correct innings and correct scores. Trust me, if you keep your information correctly the system can take care of itself. It is only when TWO teams - together - fail to keep score properly that teams get away with this. Yes, there are some players who are of "known ability" that try to abuse the system, but if the players report them as well, then the League Operator can take action. Don't just say "Joe Blow plays like a 7".... explain that he is a Master Player in another league so that the League Operator actually understands this. A lot of league operators aren't privy to knowing all of the players in the other leagues.
My point is this: Don't let someone else ruin your fun. Do your job and play pool, the system will take care of itself. The APA is a fun, competitive league where those that put together the proper team, keep score properly and have fun do have an opportunity to "go all the way" and when they do, they won't have to worry about being disqualified. It is teams like yours that the APA encourages and protects.