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Tommy-D

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
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> Playing in a 8-ball tournament Wednesday night,and was faced with this layout.

CueTable Help



I had a totally clear shot to pocket the 3 in the corner,but had to blow the cluster up to get a shot to continue running out,with the whole tournament riding on it. The cue ball was close to the 5,but the 3 was makeable without hitting it. However I didn't feel shooting this soft with a level cue would get me a 2nd shot,so I elevate and draw the cue ball into the cluster.

Now the way the balls were laying,you can't even get the 5 ball to move towards point A,much less get there,by hitting the 5 first and pocketing the 3. It's just not happening.

If I had hit the 5 first here at the speed I hit the shot,the 5 ball would have stopped dead and the 6 would have taken off straight into the rail. Only then would the cue ball have contacted it again and moved it,but it certainly wouldn't have gotten to point A.

The 6 ball barely trickled to point B. The 5 winds up at about A,and I have an angle where all I have to do is make the 5,punch the cue ball sideways 2 inches,stop off the 6 and have a makeable shot on the 8,game over. The cue ball landed about where the chalk is.

My opponent get animated and calls a bad hit. I tried to explain that the 5 couldn't have even got where it did hitting it first. He swears up and down I did.

I tell him go ahead and shoot,because anyone that thinks that was a bad hit can't get out from there anyway,LOL. He misses and hooks me twice,then I miss a tough shot and he wins.

My only mistake was not having someone that knows what balls are supposed to do coming out of a cluster watch the hit. There is NO WAY I made a bad hit here and got the result I did. This was a blatant move. Tommy D.
 
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Without someome watching by almost any rules the split goes to the player. I would have stood some ground especially if you knew you were right.
 
Jimmy M. said:
What rules were you playing by? It's a bad hit if you hit one of your own balls first?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same... In the official rules of eight ball, it doesn't matter how you make the ball, as long as it's called and you hit a ball of your own group first... But then again, I've never been able to understand all the, IMO, unnecessary rule variations you guys have in the States...
Just hope you'll remember to call someone over to call the hit next time.
 
Neil said:
First off, it shouldn't matter that you hit the 5 first or not, it is still one of your balls. It's either slop, or call pocket, not call every kiss, rail, carom, ect.

Now, as to the shot. YES. It is possible to hit the 5 first, and have it end up where it did. All you would have to do is hit the left side of the 5 and carom it off the 6. The tangent line is very close to what you have shown in the diagram. The balls do not lie. That also tells me, you did NOT hit the 5 first. The way I KNOW this, is because of where the 6 stopped. It is impossible to hit the 5 first with enough speed to carom it off the 6 and have it go several feet, and the ball you caromed off of only go a few inches.

The position of the 6 proves that you hit the 3 first, then the cb drew back into the 5, hitting the 5 fairly full, and slightly caroming it off the 6.
Click to expand...

Pool forensics at its best! :thumbup:

And I agree with junkyarddog in that I would have stood my ground and, at the very least, I would have called the TD over to discuss it before letting the opponent back to the table.

Please, OP, let us know what the rule was as far as hitting your 5 first and making the 3 in the right pocket, would that constitute a foul?

And, of course, Monday (or Thursday) morning quarterbacks say close hits should always be watched in important matches.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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Looks like you could play the 3 with some high outside English. Coming back across to play the 6 in the same corner,I don't see a foul.I think you are right,for what good it is
 
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> I appreciate everyone's input ;).

As for the actual rules,there isn't an APA,BCA or any other rule book in the building,therefore they go by "bar rules",which of course have never been written down and posted anywhere I know of :confused:.

I realize that sometimes it's hard to see exactly what is available on the illustration as compared to the actual at-table layout. I apologize for anything that was unclear,I know you guy's weren't nit-pickin me :thumbup:.

With the exception of the cluster,which is the only important part,the rest of the balls are just an approximation.

As the end result of my shot,all I had to do is make the 5 basically,make the 6 and stay anywhere within 4" and I had a slightly tough but makeable shot into the closest open corner for THE WIN. Exactly what I envisioned,and all you can ask for really,esp on a dirty but crazy-fast bar table.

It has bugged me ever since that I didn't give a complete technical explanation of what I was about to do before hand,and leave no doubt :o.

On the other hand,when I see what is a clear path to winning the game and therefore the tournament,I don't want to gear down and take 2 minutes explaining my intentions,I'm taking him out right then,no hesitation.

Even if I had stopped and asked for someone to come watch the hit,there wasn't a soul in the building I'd trust to know exactly what should happen as I've explained here,other than myself.

The only other person that was there that I would have felt comfortable watching it was already gone.

Anyone else that could have been called would have probably gave it to the other guy since he's drinking buddies with everyone there except me. It's this same clique that openly roots against me,and makes it a point to celebrate loudly when they win.

Standing my ground in this spot,esp if I was "enthusiastic" about it,would have led to something much more serious in all likelihood.

I also never said a word about him slug-racking me to start with.

Also,it will be ok in all honesty,dude still had to look in the mirror today and know he pulled a move,and regardless of what else happened last night my winning percentage is still 75% against him,his crew,and moves like that. I had a 12 game winning streak against him individually on top of that,over the last 7-8 tournaments. Tommy D.
 
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