I Must Have A Serious Problem?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
most of you know that i struggle with the long, straight in draw shot. so tonight i decided to shoot a somewhat shorter version of the shot, as diagrammed below.

well, i tried and tried to make 10 of these in a row, and i only got to 6 in a row a couple of times. now, there were alot of miscues, dunno what was causing that. and when i did make the shots almost every time the cue ball came straight back.

i just couldnt believe the most i could make in a row was 6??? i need help, dunno what part of the mechanics is failing me, but i need help. is it the alignment? aim? stroke? dunno, but something is just pretty wrong down here in Loogootee, IN.

Scott Lee? are you listening? uh, help..............:eek:

CueTable Help

 
I think you definately need a lesson. To be missing that shot like that means something fundamentally is out of wack. That would be hard to correct without seeing it first hand.
 
Give a quick try to aiming the center of the cue ball to the spot on the cloth where the object ball is resting not looking at the side of the object ball, the very small spot where the ball sits will give you a chance to actually miss the center of the pocket either way and still make the ball more consistantly.--Leonard
 
i think part of my problem is that i have no idea if i am aiming straight when i am over the ball. i have no idea if i am aligned/aimed/stroking just a fraction of a hair to the left or the right.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
most of you know that i struggle with the long, straight in draw shot. so tonight i decided to shoot a somewhat shorter version of the shot, as diagrammed below.

well, i tried and tried to make 10 of these in a row, and i only got to 6 in a row a couple of times. now, there were alot of miscues, dunno what was causing that. and when i did make the shots almost every time the cue ball came straight back.

i just couldnt believe the most i could make in a row was 6??? i need help, dunno what part of the mechanics is failing me, but i need help. is it the alignment? aim? stroke? dunno, but something is just pretty wrong down here in Loogootee, IN.

Scott Lee? are you listening? uh, help..............:eek:

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
My guess is that you have a problem with your stroke. The reason I say this is because I had problems for a very long time with draw until I found out I was twisting my wrist, which caused a lot of inaccuracy in my stroke.
Although I had taken some lessons, I really discovered this on my own, after my first lesson but before my second.

The problem I had was with rattling the balls in corner pockets. Once I adjusted my wrist position so I did not twist it, I started making them very cleanly. I still rattle now and then but so does everyone.

I would highly recommend another lesson, as long as you are willing to approach it with an open mind.

However, I read a few years ago that you took a lesson with Mark Wilson and then decided not to use what he had taught you because it did not feel comfortable. That is fine because that is a personal decision you made on your own. However, before you spend more money on more lessons, be sure that you are willing to accept the advice. I highly doubt that Scott Lee will give you much different advice than Mark Wilson did.

One other thing that I have found... When I have taken instruction in the past I had a very difficult time incorporating everything because nothing felt comfortable. However, I have found that as I continue playing I find myself incorporating more and more of what was taught to me in those lessons and it has been pretty successful. It is information overload in the beginning, but if you incorporate slowly, it can be a huge benefit. Just a thought.

If I am not remembering correctly, and that was not you, I apoligize. However, I am pretty confident I am correct.

Anyway, FWIW.
 
Last edited:
JDB said:
My guess is that you have a problem with your stroke. The reason I say this is because I had problems for a very long time with draw until I found out I was twisting my wrist, which caused a lot of inaccuracy in my stroke.
Although I had taken some lessons, I really discovered this on my own, after my first lesson but before my second.

The problem I had was with rattling the balls in corner pockets. Once I adjusted my wrist position so I did not twist it, I started making them very cleanly. I still rattle now and then but so does everyone.

I would highly recommend another lesson, as long as you are willing to approach it with an open mind.

However, I read a few years ago that you took a lesson with Mark Wilson and then decided not to use what he had taught you because it did not feel comfortable. That is fine because that is a personal decision you made on your own. However, before you spend more money on more lessons, be sure that you are willing to accept the advice. I highly doubt that Scott Lee will give you much different advice than Mark Wilson did.

One other thing that I have found... When I have taken instruction in the past I had a very difficult time incorporating everything because nothing felt comfortable. However, I have found that as I continue playing I find myself incorporating more and more of what was taught to me in those lessons and it has been pretty successful. It is information overload in the beginning, but if you incorporate slowly, it can be a huge benefit. Just a thought.

If I am not remembering correctly, and that was not you, I apoligize. However, I am pretty confident I am correct.

Anyway, FWIW.
Click to expand...

Its not so much the wrist as it is the THUMB. Many players grip the cue too tightly with thumb and it causes the "wrist flaw". I usually have my students hit a few shots without using the thumb at all, just the fingers... this will relax the wrist completely - and you will be able to get that snap your draw stroke... trust me!

Loosen the grip a bit, or remove the thumb completely for a few shots and then gently return the thumb back into your grip. Keep it loose. I am sure you will notice a difference right away.
 
like you posted before talking about your alignment, i think that is what is off. I struggled with this for months until i figured out it was what i was doing. Some people just naturally align correctly i think, and then theres the rest of us lol.
 
I would have to agree... I took lessons with scott lee for two reason..one he came with such high regards ...i had to give him a try and two i knew in short time i would be buying a house and putting my table up so i wanted to knock the lesson out so that i had a video that i could work on when i got in the house and started my practice routine back up..well i have found out that i look at the video scott made of me at least once a week...it shows me that i still have alot to learn but it gives me chance to see how far i have come ..it has been several months since Scott met with me here in Richmond..i have been working on set pause finish and it has helped me..I knew that my stroke was not right and scott knew as well and that it was something to be worked out later in another sessions..but i have to say scott was nice enough to let me know there was a flaw..so it gave me something to work on...i have since corrected the glitch myself thru self video and looking at the one scott made for me..but you should video yourself shooting the shoot ten times..you will see where your error is if its in your fundementals of stroke and alignment..if you video from front back side sometimes it just in your mind..i have seen that first hand..i will give you example..i have a decent game ..at times it can right damn sporty but the consistency is just horrible..i mean i can run the rack and get to the eight and lock it up...and generally do that..but just this past sunday i was going to do what every guy does well in the bathroom :) and i have my old inside pool magazine in their to help ease things along...haha..well there was an issue where they where talking about "Blacking Out" and it hit me...that is what i do ..sometimes i never see the cue ball strike the object ball..i will lose sight of the ball on impact but catch sight of it when it goes in or misses..and it dawned on me.. I was born with no muscle in my eyes..so i have to turn my head to see. Any moment of my head changes what my eyes pick up..i never really knew how much just a slight movement of my head changed my sight picture..god only knows what happens for the millions of you who can move their eyes..but that night at league i told myself that i was going to stay with the shoot , with contact and watching it fall in the pocket..and you know what YATZE..dear god what a diffrece ...it was so noticible that before i knew what happned it i had the guy 32 to 2..i went on to win and while i was packing my gear up after the win my team mates asked me ...Tony..did you go to some pool school this weekend..(They were serious !!) I just laughed and told them no..i just solved about 10 years worth of problems in my game..I could really tell how much i moved my head because it was a mental struggle to make myself keep my head completly still and follow the shot..but it was awsome to figure it out..im sure you will figure this draw shout out...good luck..and damn i always end up writing long post..got find a way to shorten my thoughts heheh
 
scottycoyote said:
like you posted before talking about your alignment, i think that is what is off. I struggled with this for months until i figured out it was what i was doing. Some people just naturally align correctly i think, and then theres the rest of us lol.
Click to expand...
I would agree with this if he has the same problem with draw, follow and stop shots. However, if he only has the problem with draw, and can make all other types of shots from the same position, I have a problem thinking alignment is the problem.

Since he called out draw specifically, I thought the problem was elsewhere.

However, I could be wrong too. Just my thoughts.
 
JDB said:
I would agree with this if he has the same problem with draw, follow and stop shots. However, if he only has the problem with draw, and can make all other types of shots from the same position, I have a problem thinking alignment is the problem.

Since he called out draw specifically, I thought the problem was elsewhere.

However, I could be wrong too. Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

good point........maybe its both lol
 
Blackjack said:
Its not so much the wrist as it is the THUMB. Many players grip the cue too tightly with thumb and it causes the "wrist flaw". I usually have my students hit a few shots without using the thumb at all, just the fingers... this will relax the wrist completely - and you will be able to get that snap your draw stroke... trust me!

Loosen the grip a bit, or remove the thumb completely for a few shots and then gently return the thumb back into your grip. Keep it loose. I am sure you will notice a difference right away.
Click to expand...
Blackjack,

Thanks for the advice; I agree 100%. Dick Leonard from CCB suggested making a V with your thumb and first finger one time to alleviate the thumb issue. I tried it and liked it, but was never real comfortable (felt too awkward to me). That was how I knew I was twisting my wrist, because he said that this would solve the problem.

However, I now know the feeling of it and that is the feeling I strive for in my grip. Not sure that makes much sense, but it corrected my problem.
 
Well the shot you diagrammed is pretty short, but like I said before, if you're talking about table-length draw shots, they're just not that easy. Some of you veterans have forgotten what it was like. Hitting very low and with speed means any slight errors are magnified.

And you mentioned not being able to hit on the vertical axis. I don't know if you said you have it, but try Joe Tucker's 3rd eye trainer.
 
Stroke

Blackjack said:
Its not so much the wrist as it is the THUMB. Many players grip the cue too tightly with thumb and it causes the "wrist flaw". I usually have my students hit a few shots without using the thumb at all, just the fingers... this will relax the wrist completely - and you will be able to get that snap your draw stroke... trust me!

Loosen the grip a bit, or remove the thumb completely for a few shots and then gently return the thumb back into your grip. Keep it loose. I am sure you will notice a difference right away.
Click to expand...

Although it may be somewhat unorthodox, check out the grip on Matlock's stroke. He has nearly perfect fundamentals. Eye, elbow, stance, -virtually perfect for a world class player......
 
Draw Stroke

The shot you are showing is straight in. Most average players shoot their cue just "somewhere forward in front of them". LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY!

When a shot is straight in the point of contact on the cue ball and the object ball is on the exact same line. This line also cuts the pocket in half.

The first thing you do is shoot a few shots with a center ball hit by aiming through the center of the cue BUT on your final couple of strokes you forget about the cue ball being there and push your tip toward the contact point of the object ball (keeping in mind they are both on the same line of aim).

The benefit is your are forced to keep your stroke on the line of aim and you are aiming at a specific point (the contact point on the object ball). Try this with different staight in long shots (try some just off the rail). You will be amazed how much eaiser it is to make a straight in shot. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU ARE AIMING AT A SPECIFIC POINT ON THE OBJECT BALL AND BY HAVING YOUR TIP PUSH THRU THE CUE BALL TO THE CONTACT POINT OF THE OBJECT BALL YOU ARE STAYING ON THE LINE OF AIM.

TO DRAW YOUR CUE BALL YOU AIM AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CUE BALL AND PUSH THRU IT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE OBJECT BALL (STRAIGHT BELOW THE CONTACT POINT ON THE OBJECT BALL). This again will keep you on the line of aim buy stroking straight thru the line of aim.

Practice this and you should make 9 out of 10 draw shots that you have shown.

If you like this technique let me know since there is one more thing to add when cutting balls up to about 15 degrees.

twoforpool@comcast.net
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
...I Must Have A Serious Problem?
Click to expand...

I agree, you must have a serious problem. Not your stroke (although you probably do have some kind of issue to deal with), but the fact that you just posted your decision to take a lesson, yet you continue to ask AZ'rs to fix your problems...shot by shot. (Please don't take this the wrong way).

Do you realize we (AZ'rs) can't "see" what you're doing wrong (so it's all guess work) as Scott will be able to??? Do yourself a favor and write down shots that come up and discuss them with Scott, not this forum. He might just be able to fix most of them by "seeing" what you're doing, or not doing. Scott will then recommend a set of drills that may help.

If you continue down this path of posting every situation you run into, I'm afraid you will begin to suffer "paralysis by analysis" by getting too much information without first fixing a basic fundamental. (If you haven't already).

Please let Scott work with you and just report back with the results in a few weeks. We all wish you well and hope you find what you're looking for.

Dave
 
As mentioned, it's tough without seeing you shoot but I have to imagine it's your stroke.

And don't worry about the long draw strokes, that's one of the strongest part of my game(the draw stroke) and I'll still miss much more than I'd like(either the OB or the right amount of draw).
 
Thanks to Blackjack for the suggestion. I'll be working on that today as I always practice stroking technique for a while before playing the ghost.
 
Yup...you sir have a problem.

What I wonder is who is this DrCue?Is he ok with your skill level?You are after all his protege.That said if you were my protege,I'd have you killed do to my own shame.


Just kidding dude....but seriously,get the lessons...you really have a few things wrong(maybe more) in the mechanics area imo....and as mentioned,its uncorrectable without seeing what I think might be baseball like swing at the cue ball.

I think you are catching Scott at pretty good time as far as development goes.Real live lessons will do you wonders imo.

Keep us posted...not with how things are before the lessons...ya know...cuz we kinda know and all....but after would be interesting.I'd like to know your "high run" on this shot one week after you get some coaching.I bet its a large difference.
 
I think your problem lies in the six inch gap between your ears.
You have taken enough lessons, played enough pool and watched enough videos and read enough books to know exactly how to pull the shots off. I bet the problem you are having is that you have a lack of mental focus on the shot and a lack of commitment to the shot, often time caught up in between two different ways to pull off the shot at hand instead of instead of picking one of them and committing to the shot you do a bit of both and blow an easy shot on a otherwise good out.

Maybe Scott can help you there as well. I found from past trials in this area that mundane boring ass drills like 15 straight in stop shots from the bottom of the table, and the ability to get through them is the only way for me to break that lack of mental focus, and the ability to take "the easy shot" seriously enough to stop dogging it.
 
take two weeks off from pool, then quit

might i recommend checkers? you might be able to master it.

-s
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top