I Need Cutters
- Thread starter pathman
- Start date
I think your better off getting a quality lathe tool with replaceble carbide inserts. MSC and ENCO carry them and I think GRIZZLY has them also. Get a tool about 1/2 or 3/8 and it will work fine. No sharpening, just change the carbide inserts if they get dull. They really cut like "butta".
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kiinstructor said:
Is carbide tooling prefered for cuemaking ? I'd guess that carbide would have better resistance to dulling due to the abrasiveness of wood, but you can sharpen HSS tool blanks a lot 'sharper' than carbide. HSS is often better in less rigid setups, as a pool cue might be. Just curious.
Dave
Ill tell you what, HSS is great when its sharp. Problem is, it dulls easily and your constantly touchng it up. Carbide inserts are extremely sharp and work fine for me. You must learn how to sharpen HSS correctly in order for it to work. Its a pain IMO. Ive gone to strictly diamond and carbide inserts for all my facing and turning applications and they work fine. Cost a few bucks more but deals are out there if you look for them. Just my opinion.
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kiinstructor said:
Even if you never grind a tool you need to know how to do it if you are doing machining. You never know when you will need just the right tool to do a job and you can fashion it yourself on the spot. I took a course in machining to improve my skills and tool grinding was the very first lesson when it came to the lathes. Working on cues by the way, HSS does work well and only takes a few seconds to touch up when it dulls. You can put a razor edge on one and cutting wood it lasts for a good amount or time making very nice fine cuts. Some times you make the smallest change in the grind and it makes all the difference in the finished job.
ashmouth said:
Pick up a machinist manual. You can buy a new one or you can find them at any used book store. It doesn't matter how old it is the principles are the same. I have a lot of them, one I have was put out by the Ford motor company around 1940 for their factories and I love to read through it. You see jigs and set up's that apply to what you do today. My taper attachment I use came out of one of an old shop fixture manual and you would think they were talking about cue making the way it is designed. I just had to do a small modification to it. Your always learning something.
> HSS cutters will indeed sharpen up quite a bit nicer than carbide,but dull quickly,especially with metal. A 12" turning taking just .025 with a light feed like .003 will see your tool wear by .005 or more over the length of the cut. Carbide tool grinding is not only a pain,but the dust is carcinogenic,and takes real skill. HSS grinds much easier,and doesn't require a special wheel to boot. For those that have never ground a tool,here is a pretty good page with plenty of pics.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm
> Just the right grind,with proper relief and rake,and a tiny flat at the tip as opposed to as sharp as you can get it,usually makes a smoother cut,stays that way a little longer,and is stronger geometrically,very sharp thin points break easily. Carbide tools come ready to go,just make sure you use a razor blade and cut the rubberized coating off first. I've asked this same question here as well,and came to the conclusion that both types have their uses. The indexable carbide tools have only one drawback,and that is the cost. The toolholders themselves can cost 50.00 or more for a set,with NO inserts,and the inserts can be as much as 5.00 each,and are usually sold in 10-packs. If you are buying these for a small mini-lathe,the standard size shank is 5/16,with a 3/8 shank sometimes you will have to shim the tool up in the back to make the nose of the tool drop to get it on center,this can have a dramtic effect on turning and facing cuts. Hope this helps,Tommy D.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm
> Just the right grind,with proper relief and rake,and a tiny flat at the tip as opposed to as sharp as you can get it,usually makes a smoother cut,stays that way a little longer,and is stronger geometrically,very sharp thin points break easily. Carbide tools come ready to go,just make sure you use a razor blade and cut the rubberized coating off first. I've asked this same question here as well,and came to the conclusion that both types have their uses. The indexable carbide tools have only one drawback,and that is the cost. The toolholders themselves can cost 50.00 or more for a set,with NO inserts,and the inserts can be as much as 5.00 each,and are usually sold in 10-packs. If you are buying these for a small mini-lathe,the standard size shank is 5/16,with a 3/8 shank sometimes you will have to shim the tool up in the back to make the nose of the tool drop to get it on center,this can have a dramtic effect on turning and facing cuts. Hope this helps,Tommy D.
ashmouth said:
The link Tommy-D posted contains some good resources. Here are a couple more that may be handy as the others do not contain much information on the different angles needed to properly cut different materials :
http://www.metalartspress.com/Sharpening Steel Lathe Tools.pdf
http://users.aol.com/lughaid/toolbit.jpg
Dave
One thing I do is have roughing and finishing tools. For example, when I install a ferrule, I use a brazed carbide tool to turn the ferrule to about .005 bigger than the shaft. Then, I switch to a sharp HSS tool for my final cuts. This way I have the best of both worlds. I can use carbide for the heavy cuts, and HSS for the final cuts. By only using the HSS for the last few thousandths, the wear on its fine edge is greatly reduced.
I'm sure you all had ferrule jobs where you would cut the ferrule, then mike it, and it would not be of consistent diameter its entire length. And you couldn't figure out why it was happening. That is because the tool is not sharp, and you are pushing instead of cutting. Having a tool dedicated just to finish cuts will make all those problems go away.
Having a QC tool post really makes this feasible.
I'm sure you all had ferrule jobs where you would cut the ferrule, then mike it, and it would not be of consistent diameter its entire length. And you couldn't figure out why it was happening. That is because the tool is not sharp, and you are pushing instead of cutting. Having a tool dedicated just to finish cuts will make all those problems go away.
Having a QC tool post really makes this feasible.
angles
I have never found the proper angles to grind for wood or plastic to get the best finish, anyone have any suggestions?
I have never found the proper angles to grind for wood or plastic to get the best finish, anyone have any suggestions?
I believe most metalworking tools are ground to about 7 to 10 degrees. They are this way to give a longer life to the cutting edge, by having more support behind it. With wood and plastic, you don't need as much support behind the cutting edge, because the material is much softer. I don't measure my cutting tools when grinding, but I'd say off hand my relief angles are close to 20 degrees.
One thing I like to do for my finishing tool for ferrules....I sharpen the front and leading side of the tool on my bench grinder. THis leaves a SHARP cutting edge with NO radius. I then put the radius on the sharp edge with an oilstone. Just 3 or 4 passes on the stone is all it takes, to put about a .005 or smaller radius on it. With that small of a radius on the tool, I can take off half a thousandths off of a ferrule with no problems. The tool actually cuts instead of pushing the ferrule away. This cutting ability combined with using an independent 4 jaw chuck to center the shaft dead on, allows me to get the ferrule flush with the shaft with no sanding. The sanding is just to polish the ferrule, and I usually start at 400 grit on a ferrule job.
Here is a link to tons of hints for machining plastics. Its a compilation of years of message board/user group discussions. There are sure to be good tips in there.
One thing I like to do for my finishing tool for ferrules....I sharpen the front and leading side of the tool on my bench grinder. THis leaves a SHARP cutting edge with NO radius. I then put the radius on the sharp edge with an oilstone. Just 3 or 4 passes on the stone is all it takes, to put about a .005 or smaller radius on it. With that small of a radius on the tool, I can take off half a thousandths off of a ferrule with no problems. The tool actually cuts instead of pushing the ferrule away. This cutting ability combined with using an independent 4 jaw chuck to center the shaft dead on, allows me to get the ferrule flush with the shaft with no sanding. The sanding is just to polish the ferrule, and I usually start at 400 grit on a ferrule job.
Here is a link to tons of hints for machining plastics. Its a compilation of years of message board/user group discussions. There are sure to be good tips in there.
iusedtoberich said:
I second this advice and would like to add that if you want to get a real positive angle on the top of the tool use a small radius stone in the dremel and grind it like this. The proof of your grind should be in the chip they should be smooth and ribbon like.
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