I need to unload

[Teacherman]

Ya good point, i mean who needs lights to play pool. I never play with lights or a cue stick, I just slap the cue ball around with my hand in the dark.

Mack

OK, I guess it's too much to expect you guys to deduct the meaning of this sentence.

First he whines about the lights, then he argues with the manager, then he decides to he can make it anyway (in the dark), which means it wasn't really dark. And, before he can shoot it the manager is at his table causing him more grief. As if the manager doesn't have anything else to do at that moment but go to his table and demand he not shoot the last ball. Please. The timeline doesn't add up.............unless there is more to the story.

Were you the only ones in the room? If there were other tables going, someone has to be the last to check out. They all can't do it at once. Why not you? Go back, make the shot, bring up the balls. Instead.......

I hear similar stories everyday. They all have the same verse. Usually a little different tune.

In other words........I don't believe the story.

There is obviously more to the story than he's willing to tell.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I'm sorry to hear it went this way.

My sincere suggestion is that you speak with the owner and get his input on this and wrap it up.

If he sides with his manager on this, well, you know the score.

There are other rooms who can and do make more accomodations for their core clients. Seek these places out and make them and yourself money.

It doesn't take long for a story like this to cost that room a lot of money.


Dave

 

[stolz2]

OK, I guess it's too much to expect you guys to deduct the meaning of this sentence.

First he whines about the lights, then he argues with the manager, then he decides to he can make it anyway (in the dark), which means it wasn't really dark. And, before he can shoot it the manager is at his table causing him more grief. As if the manager doesn't have anything else to do at that moment but go to his table and demand he not shoot the last ball. Please. The timeline doesn't add up.............unless there is more to the story.

Were you the only ones in the room? If there were other tables going, someone has to be the last to check out. They all can't do it at once. Why not you? Go back, make the shot, bring up the balls. Instead.......

I hear similar stories everyday. They all have the same verse. Usually a little different tune.

In other words........I don't believe the story.

There is obviously more to the story than he's willing to tell.

I understand you broke it down better that time, but under the circumstances I probabably would have done the same thing. The first time he went up to her probably was not whining just wanted the lights on for the $800 shot, then when she says no, he probably knows he must shoot it in the dark, probably not pitch dark, but still dark. Then the lady comes up and just grabs the nine to prove she has the power, sounds like she was acting like a bitch. I understand there is 2 sides, but grabing the nine ball was out of line in my book.

 

[Rude Dog]

I understand you broke it down better that time, but under the circumstances I probabably would have done the same thing. The first time he went up to her probably was not whining just wanted the lights on for the $800 shot, then when she says no, he probably knows he must shoot it in the dark, probably not pitch dark, but still dark. Then the lady comes up and just grabs the nine to prove she has the power, sounds like she was acting like a bitch. I understand there is 2 sides, but grabing the nine ball was out of line in my book.

That's exactly the way I understood it. Whoever Teacherman is, he's way out of line. I don't know him nor do I wish to. Peace, John.

 

[Bob Romano]

And what you "Teacherman" don't understand is the whole principle to good business and not alienating the people who pay the $80.00 table time which pays the bills.

As I stated, I know this guy. I run BIG tournaments and I listen to a bunch of whining all the time, believe me. Westjer is not in the whining league, this is not typical of him.

I don't understand why you insist on bashing this person when you don't know him. I am not sure why you feel the need to pick apart an apparently bad experience he had, and finish it off by calling him a liar when you don't even know him.

The managers technique of eviction was inexcusable and just plain bad business.

 

[Teacherman]

The fact that he posted his experience in a forum less than an hour after it happened is very telling.

I have the same opinion of the guy who posted his experience with a cue manufacturer.

I own a pool room. Two of them. I have more experience with this kind of thing than most of you. My experience says there is more to the story.

As a room owner you very seldom know the truth at the time of the occurrence. One side says one thing. The other side says the opposite. Then weeks, or months later you get to the bottom of it. Seldom is the employee completely innocent. Seldom is the customer 100% truthful.

I appreciate Flanagan and Black Jack's point of view.

If it was me, I would lean on the side of the odds. Just like matching up......

If I'm on duty, he'll get to shoot his 9 ball. If I'm not, and my employee did what this gal did, then I look into it. I can see (have been in) situations where I would've done the same thing.

Comes down to the credibility of each person. How important is this customer versus how important is this employee.

You'd be surprised how often I side with employees.

Goes back to the 5% I talked about earlier.

Surprised no one took a guess on who is in that 5%.

 

[Teacherman]

Might I also add that "the customer always wins" philosophy, or "the business should provide outstanding service to all it's customers" philosophy is not the cornerstone of my business.

I have found over the years that there is a huge element (silent majority) of customers that really dislike other customers who are always working the system, playing position on the business, causing uneasy situations, making scenes, etc etc. This majority is very loyal. Quiet. But loyal. They are tired of being good decent people and overlooked because the loudest or squeakiest get the grease. These people love it when Mr. Mouth is given his medicine by the room owner. They especially love it when Mr. Owner delivers the medicine in front of them.

I think I'm known for practicing medicine in my pool room. The rif raf can go to the competitors place.

I love those who play for an hour or two, have a couple drinks, a sandwich and leave respectfully. I'll take 200 of these through the doors every night over the 10 who have no interest other than stalking out their next prey. Who don't spend a nickel until they can steal a dime. Who take and never give. And then complain when something doesn't go their way.

Yeah, their table time might be $80. But, is it worth the maintenance?

 

[Jack Flanagan]

as a pool room owner, I agree 100% with 'teacherman',,,it's been a slow week at my place,,,only had a few whiners,,,today is Sunday, all tables are busy, no whiners, just good solid shooters, nobody trying to hustle anybody, "life could't get any better than this".....

 

[Teacherman]

The canyon that exists between pool room owners and pool players is vast.

No matter what is said, the players don't realize they don't butter the owners bread. And for some reason they take offense at it.

And, because they can draw their ball they think they are special.

Hey, I love to watch good pool. When I want to do it I go somewhere else. Usually that place is next to empty with 2 or 3 tables going, a couple of poker machines in action and a money match going on. Nice and peaceful.

 

[DaveK]

OK, I guess it's too much to expect you guys to deduct the meaning of this sentence.

Actually I deducted all meaning from your sentence.

Dave

 

[DaveK]

That's exactly the way I understood it. Whoever Teacherman is, he's way out of line. I don't know him nor do I wish to. Peace, John.

Well said John.

Dave

 

[westjer]

First - Eydie - thanks for the kind words.

I'm not sure how to respond to Teacherman, he doesn't know me and has only heard my side of the story. I know that what I posted was the truth of what actually happened, whether you choose to believe it is up to you. I don't believe that customer service should ever end no matter what time it is.

If a manager doesn't take the time to listen to what a customer is explaining then they are not doing their job. I didn't argue with her, but was trying to explain the situation and given that their were 10 minutes left before bar time I hoped that she would take the time to listen and understand. Had I known that she was going act in the manner in which she did I would never had even went up to ask her and draw attention to myself and just shot it with the lights off, there was enough light that I would have tried it, I was just hoping that I could get the optimal lighting back for the last shot.

I normally play at another room in town, Cuenique Billiards (where most of the players hang out) and was just at this establishment because they were having a tournament. The staff at Cuenique is educated and know the difference between drinkers (who can be very beligerant in trying to get out at bar time) and pool players. They know that we are not the people that cause the trouble at bar time. One person today mentioned a good point, the owner of the room has a hard time keeping help and when that happens you are forced to hire people with less skills. This seems to me to be the case.


I have worked at a a bar/pool hall before and have been on both sides, but I do know that I would never have treated a customer in this manner and if you abdicate this manner in dealing with customers you will not be in business for long or at least not make the profit that you could have if you treated customers better. I agree that the customer is not always right, but it is the manner in which you express this feeling to your customer as to whether the customer returns.

 

[westjer]

Also Teacherman - My $80 time wasn't the only money that I spent. I ate 3 meals and drank about about 15 cokes. In addition I bought raffle tickets for the McDermott cue that they were raffling. Now do I really want a McDermott? Not really, but it is all about supporting pool. I am a customer that most pool halls want, I have money, I spend my money, I don't complain unless there it is something grevious to complain about. I agree that I wouldn't want the type of pool players that you are talking about, you just need to realize that I am not that type. Why I need to explain this to you is beyond me though.

 

[GeraldG]

Also Teacherman - My $80 time wasn't the only money that I spent. I ate 3 meals and drank about about 15 cokes. In addition I bought raffle tickets for the McDermott cue that they were raffling. Now do I really want a McDermott? Not really, but it is all about supporting pool. I am a customer that most pool halls want, I have money, I spend my money, I don't complain unless there it is something grevious to complain about. I agree that I wouldn't want the type of pool players that you are talking about, you just need to realize that I am not that type. Why I need to explain this to you is beyond me though.

I wouldn't worry too much about what Teacherman thinks or says. To begin with, he makes the assumption that YOU were the cause of the problem, decided that you were a part of the 5% he keeps talking about, then in the next breath he says that he doesn't know you or the manager, wasn't there...therefore doesn't know what happened....but indicated that he would likely side with his manager anyway. From the sound of it, I'm pretty sure his establishment would not be a place I would be interested in frequenting....it sounds like customer service is just not his forte'. Some business owners have that attitude...the customer is just a huge pain-in-the-ass that you have to put up with to get their money.

It's true that we only see one side of the story here, but I don't know what you could hope to gain from coming on here and lying about it. I would be inclined to believe you until someone could offer something credible to refute your story.

Anyway...your request was certainly not unreasonable. You spent $80 on table time plus whatever you spent on food, drinks, etc...another couple of minutes to shoot one shot to finish the set should be a no-brainer. Like I said earlier, if I were the manger of that establishment, I would want to know about it. I would be looking for a replacement for that manager. Her behavior was completely out of line and unacceptable.

 

[nfty9er]

My .02cents but worth a buck

I wanted to respond to this threat earlier but I waited for westjr to respond again in the hope that he had a chance to speak to the owner and respond with his reaction. I guess he hadn't yet but he did reiterate what happened and he hit the nail on the head when he said the help probaby was way out of line and not very well trained.
As a room owner and speaking from 30 years of experience in that capacity I must lay the blame on the owner of that room and here is why. Since gambling is illegal in a pool room the owner should take that into account from the beginning and if he allows gambling then it is behooving on him to train his employees the procedures to follow when people are gambling late at night. In my room they are all trained that if a game is going on to be cognizant of that and act appropriately. If there game is going to end soon, collect there time and cash out your regsiter. If there game is going to be awhile you should try to stand by if possible but they should also be willing to make it worth your while. You have to have common sense. There are some players in my room I trust competely and I keep a list of them so if theywant to play, the help can just leave. The players are instructed to leave money for time or write down when they are done and they can pay the next day or whenever. Closing down a pool room is a little different than closing a bar. It is possible a pool rooms permit allows him to stay open later than bar closing time, and the only responsibility would be to make sure all drinks are empty and gone, and all booze is gone off the bar. If this is not the case then just get everyone out and lock the door, and let the players finish. We have done that hundreds of times over the years and never had a problem.
In this case the lady had no reason in the world to break up a $800 game in that situatiion, she was not trained properly. There are no two sides to this story, nothing can justify her actions. The responsibility starts at the top.

 

[Teacherman]

...There are no two sides to this story, nothing can justify her actions...QUOTE]

My entire point has been there are two sides to the story.

The side we know doesn't add up. It's a typical "I'll tell you enough to support my version".

Yet, nifty doesn't care about the other side. He already knows the answer.

 

[Teacherman]

...he makes the assumption that YOU were the cause of the problem...

Show me where I said that.

My entire point has been the other side of the story is absent from this conversation.

westjer has done a fine job of stating his version. Sounds like a reasonable guy.

Would love to have the empoyee(s) post a response.

Again, as a room owner, it's difficult to get to the bottom of these situations.

15 years and 2 rooms of experience tell me the odds are the real story is different.

 

[Teacherman]

...I have money, I spend my money...

Now you're talking my language.

This separates you from most pool players.

 

[Jack Flanagan]

and I have vCash on teacherman being correct in this situation...as granny always said, 'there's three sides to all stories, his side, her side, and the truth !',,,I taught school for too many years, ran several businesses, done jury duty, etc & without a doubt people will embellish a story in their best light !

 

[Rickw]

I understand Teacherman's point, we don't know both sides of the story. I think I also understand where he's coming from about the customers he likes and the customers he doesn't like. Given all that, I think you've allowed yourself to become a little jaded Teacherman. You seem to be generalizing people based on your bias and that sound like prejudice to me. The Ramanos have made a great point and that is that you should provide the best customer service to everyone until they prove themselves undeserving of it. You have two pool rooms and 15 years of experience but I'm sure even you could improve your business if you are just willing to treat people sans you bigotry. I've worked in a ph for 3 years and I treated everyone like they were my best customers until they crossed the line, way over the line. In those three years we never had a fight or any other major problem.

I had four guys in one day and they were getting a little loud. One of them hit his house cue on the table, not too hard but hard enough to put a ding in the cue. I could have yelled at him in front of his friends and made a scene but I didn't. I asked him to come over to me which was about 15 feet away from his friends and I told him that the equipment was free and for their pleasure and that I would not tolerate it if he damaged the equipment again. I then told him that he could go back and tell his friends that I just wanted to compliment him on his excellent shot-making. No one lost face and they played on a little more and then left. As far as I'm concerned, if you own a room or work in a room, you are responsible for what goes down in that room because you control it not the customer. It can be a nice congenial environment or it can be a shooting gallery, it's up to you. Obviously, that manager has to take responsibility for what went down.