i think i just played my last tournament

[lorider]

Good lord..

reading this thread reminds me so much of my time in the APA.

First off a SL 5 in 9ball can not determine anything when it comes to SLs of other players. Not enough to matter anyways.

To think that you can choose who to match someone up against expecting them to lose is nonsense. More than likely and I would bet in these circumstances you put off a bad vibe and did not help the players YOU WANTED TO LOSE.

You dont match someone up thinking they could lose, you WANTED them to lose so as you determined they could stay lower until they GOT BETTER in your highly trained SL5 in APA 9ball eyes.

Get over yourself and I cant believe you have anyone left that would play.

And yes I played APA and was in regionals every year and made the finals 80% of the years and it was because I matched people up and let them know I thought they COULD WIN. I and WE (its a team you know) would help each other.

A captain is not an owner and you act like you are above everyone on your team and own them.

I rarely if ever say anything like the above but it gets me when a perslike yourself thinks they own their team and that they can tell how people play.

I guarantee you say things like so and so is a high five vs a middle five and she is a low 4. Its hard to understand but you simply do not have the knowledge to tell that.

Lol:wink

I guess the fact I picked the top 2 finishers in the correct order was a coincidence.

I guess the fact that I felt he might be on the verge of going up....my decision to match him up to a 6....then he goes against my suggestion to replay my 4 and replays himself against the 2nd most terrible 3 in town ....skunking her and then going to a 6 was a coincidence.

You have me pegged.....almost. I dont say high or low....i say weak...average and strong. Are you disagreeing there is disparity of playing ability of players at the same level?

Are you saying a low level 5 like me cannot determine if one 5 is stronger than another 5 based on each players shot making....cue ball control.....how well they execute safeties and in my ex co captains example never played a safe in the year he was on my team.

I guess a low level 5 like me is not smart enough to know that the apa handicap system does not take your opponents s/l into consideration like Fargo rate does.

I guess this low level.5 is not smart enough to know that occasionally player your players against higher levels is a double edge sword. It has been said many times on here...to get better you need to play against better players...that my friend is my ulterior motive.

I.firmly believe in playing against better players and that is why I once joined masters at an unheard of s/l 4. The first thing I learned was how to rack properly lol.

You dont believe in high ...low middle levels in the same s/l huh ? At less that is what I took from your post. You dont think one 5 is strong enough to skunk another 5 in his first ever match in Vegas? You dont think one is strong enough to win his 2nd match there 19-1 vs another 5 . You dont think he is strong enough to be down 18-0 vs a 7 before he ever gets to the table and then score 37 points to the 7's 37 points losing losing 55-37? Yea I did that . How many 5's can do that ?

Before you start saying I am a sand bagger lemme tell you I have been a 6 four times. Just dont have the focus to maintain that level night after night.

I am not a dictator on my team and promote good sportsmanship during matches and promote having fun playing ...hence the name of my team...clowning around.

 

[lorider]

One more thing me.frank.

My raises to a 6 damn sure weren't because I beat the crap out of a 3 who could not run 2 balls starting with bih like he was..

 

[lorider]

Put me in with the "I want to enjoy it" group of folks. APA league is not a professional group where the players get paid for what they do. Their payment is the enjoyment of playing.

I only played one season back in 2010 - and it was ok, other than I wish it was done earlier in the day. The folks were ok. I did rejoin the APA this month - and may play a summer league starting in May. I don't mind playing a better player; especially if they're good folk I can talk to. It can be educational. But I do want to win sometimes too.

The approach of "Team First" reminds me of those parents that take the joy out of sports for their kids cause they want to WIN. I'm sure you're a nice enough guy and all - but you might have a better relationship with the folks you play with if you were a bit more open to their desires too.

I'm 60 - wracked with arthritis, COPD, and a few other things. I'm never going to be a pro .. so the enjoyment is the only reason I play. With a desire to improve always.

Just IMHO,
Ched

Maybe I am just not able to convey how i really am with the written word very well.

I am not a dictator and mostly play pool for the pure enjoyment of playing but at the same time I see nothing wrong with having a competitive team also

Since I am the captain I look at it as doing what I feel is best for the team ...as it is a team sport. Maybe I am looking at it wrong as I want a "team" ....not individual players who want to feed their egos by beating up on lesser players.

Like I said I sometimes have to match up players so they get an easy win...for the "team" to win that night. Too many easy wins give a false rating of your actual playing level.

I had 3 - 5's on my team with the kid being the weakest. His several easy wins plus the beat down of a 3 who cant run 2 balls raised him to a 6. Beating the crap out of a 3 plus some easy wins over some 4's does not make you a 6.

I have been raised to a 6 four times. Won 38-45 vs a 9 . Won 38-42 vs a 9. Won 38-29 vs a 7. Won 38-13 vs a 7. All raises were "earned " beating higher level players and I deserved to go up. Again ...beating a 3 does not make you a 6.

The other 5 ...who stayed with me and is also a strong player beat am 8 Sunday night 18-2. Score was 38-24..if he goes up he deserves it and I will.be the first to congratulate him..

Btw...i have a 5 on my team who has lost every game he has played this session. He is am older guy...like me....60 or so and is a very weak 5. He was a 5 when he joined my team and i honestly can't understand how he ever became a 5. Since he is so weak as a 5 I always match him up against lower level.players and he always finds a way to lose.

If I was the win at all costs dictator captain people on here presume mw to be I would have dumped him and found a better player.

However....since he is a nice guy and a member of the " team " he will always be a member of the " team " as long as he wants to be even if he sucks as a 5 lol .

 

[Mkindsv]

I try to win 3 every match. All of my players want to be better players and wish to go up. I have a player that started this session a 3, first week we had our three wins, I play him against a 7, he wins, 2nd week same scenario, play him against a six, he wins, third week, against another 6, he gets a rackless, moved up to a 4, now he is 7 and 0 this session and extremely fulfilled with his performances. When I call a timeout on him, he does exactly what I ask him to do, because he knows I want him to win every single game.

I also have a 6 that tries to actively manage his handicap, this costs us matches as he doesnt always get his six innings and get out...much more frustrating than my newly minted 4.

I personally will probably be a 6 in the next week or two, and my goal is to be a 7 as it is the highest ranking in TAP, I am only playing league to become as good as I possibly can. I hope all of my players are of the same mindset and always try to work my matchups to win every match...period. And it is working, 3rd place two sessions ago, second place last session, and headed towards a first pkace finish this session if we hold up.

I truly enjoy league play and have an extremely strong stable. I would much rather have to work strategy to beat the 25 rule than put my players in "unwinable" situations, but that is my style of being a captain, to each their own.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I played in an apa.2,000.00.added 9 ball tournament that began last night. 35.00 entry fee and no green fees. Also had a Calcutta.

It was broken into handicap brackets so I only played other 5's.

My first match was last night against a former co captain of mine. There is a lil animosity between is since he left my team and took some of my players and I only found out 4 days before the new session started. The reason they left was because they did not like how I match people up. Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up. I did not mind them leaving but was upset I had no notice and had to find 4 players with only 4 days notice ....i was informed by the lo ..not the players.

So any way this is the first time we ever played a handicap match..i won 7-4 in masters.
I won 38-27 and he did not even want to shake my hand.

My next match was this morning against the favored to win....according to the Calcutta bidding anyway. I have never played this person 9 ball and have only played them a few times in 8 ball and I lost every time hill-hill. I started out bad ...like I am prone to do.
After the match had gone on a while I was starting to break and the scorekeeper said we both only needed one ball. I made one on the break and won. Like I said ...I started out bad ....just did not realize how bad until I went over the scoresheet. I was down 34-15 at one point and won 38-37 which means I scored 23 points to their 3 towards the end of the match....unfrigging believable .

My next match was 3 hours later against another guy I have never played 9 ball against. Long story short. This guy made several warp speed shots ...hoping something fell somewhere. All too often something fell and all too often he had a decent shot next or back to warp speed again and all too often I was hooked when he missed. I lost 38-32 putting me in the losers bracket.

Next match was 3 hours later against the same layer I won against this morning. I actually started out better this game and it stayed close till the last few racks where I dogged a few. I just ran out of steam and lost 38-34. I wound up in 5 th place...one spot out of the money.

I paid my tab and chatted with a few people for a few minutes and then checked to.see who was left in all the brackets. No one over 50 was left. That confirmed my suspicion that old people may play just as good...or better than youngsters...we just don't have the stamina to last hour after hour against 30-40 year olds ....at least I dont anyway. I am.63 by the way.

I don't understand any of this. You are playing a handicapped tournament where you win by points in 9-ball? That's so stupid it's god damned unbelievable. Winning by making a ball on the break?! I honestly don't understand why anyone could possibly take this seriously.

You appear to take pool seriously, judging by the tone of your post, why on earth would you want to be involved in this stupid racket in the first place? Play some proper pool! If you can't find a tournament, then match up with someone your own level, but play a proper game!

We all get bad beats every now and then. But when you are playing someone who's apparently blasting balls at random and somehow ends up winning, then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions! Is it possible that you did something wrong? Is the person hustling you, or does he know some shots you don't? Why is he getting the chance to do this crap, when he apparently doesn't even know how to play the game? Is it possible that YOU are equally bad or worse than this person, but can't admit that to yourself? I'm only asking.

I suggest you find a real tournament. Maybe one for seniors, over 50 year olds etc.. could be a good idea, to see if you do better when you're all on equal footing? Could be small, could be cheap, but unhandicapped. If you win, it's your win, if you lose you own that as well. If you're playing a great player, try to get at least a couple of games, even just one if the person you're playing is a pro. If you're playing any person, try to run a rack. If you run a rack, you run it. Nobody can take that away from you. Pocketing a single ball on the break, wtf is that?! It's nothing to be proud of or bragging about. It's like putting on a pair of pants. Conversely, losing that way is nothing to be angry about either.

Good luck with your pool playing.

 

[lorider]

ok, but I'd leave your team too. Why would I spend my time and money on something where, as my captain believes, I have no chance of winning. Waste of my time.

I gave some thought today about how bed to answer this post. I dont know anyone on here personally and normally could care less what people think. However I am going to make am exception with you since you post in the how yall doing in league thread and I have always enjoyed reading your posts.

I am going to refer to the player that all this hullabaloo is about as the kid.. I use that term loosely as he is 30 but I am 63.

He played on my team 3 full sessions and I liked him so I made him my co captain the beginning of the 2nd session. We play double jeapordy so we have 2 matches going on at the same time. . Several times while I was in the middle of a match he took it upon himself to match up the other game without confering with me first. He and I did not see eye to eye a lot of times .

Due to .....in my opinion ....being the best player on the team I always matched up with our opponents best......hoping for a win but settling for a close loss and hoping the rest of the team could offset my occasional loss.

Your assumption that I believed my player had no chance of winning is incorrect. I matched up the kid quite often to win some lopsided matches so the team could win that night. Due to matching him up like I did he had the most wins that session out of the 3 - 5's on the team. That led to an ego problem with him and falsely thinking he was the best 5 on the team. Several times hw would comment on having the best record. I would just smile and think ignorance is bliss.

After deciding to take the night off and match him up with a player I normally play hw lost bad. The other team only had 3 players so I and 2 other players went home. I get a text saying a 4 th player showed and upon finding out who it was I tell him to throw our 4. The kid takes it upon himself to jump on the 2nd worst 3 in league and as a result goes up to a 6. As much as you have played league you should realize ...one match will not make you go up. In his case it was the culmination of several easy matches. He really has an ego after going up.

The following week I play him vs a 5. The kid loses 38-40. He says ..if I was still a 5 I would have won. I say no shit.

The following week we have playoffs. The kid is still a 6. He plays another 6 and loses 18-2 . The team cannot offset this lopsided loss and we are eliminated.

The kid starts his own team the next week and also goes back down to a 5. Big deal...he already cost our team a chance at the cities.

He has been captain of his own team for 2 1/2 sessions now. He is still a 5. If I had been holding him back why has hw not gone up since he does his own matchups now ?

If he really was s/l 6 material why was he the easiest win I had in this tournament with nothing but 5's in our bracket.

I mentioned in my op this was our first handicapped match ever.

It was not our first matchup however.

I mentioned in the league thread about us matching up 2 weeks ago in masters.

Instead of flipping for who throws he said he wanted to play me. I said ok. He wins the lag and I choose 8 ball..he wins the first racks and proceeds to grin. He also wins the next 2...still grinning. As I bend down to retrieve the balls I groan and he asks what's the matter. I say o am tired and my feet hurt from an all day scotch doubles cities on 2 teams the day before

He says ...you already have your excuse for losing to me huh ? Wrong thing to say. I win 7 out of the next 8 racks.

Does it sound like I was really holding the kid back ? Or did I know how he was capable of playing regardless of frankincali opinion a lowly 5 is not capable of judging a players level of play.

 

[RichSchultz]

I gave some thought today about how bed to answer this post. I dont know anyone on here personally and normally could care less what people think. However I am going to make am exception with you since you post in the how yall doing in league thread and I have always enjoyed reading your posts.

I am going to refer to the player that all this hullabaloo is about as the kid.. I use that term loosely as he is 30 but I am 63.

He played on my team 3 full sessions and I liked him so I made him my co captain the beginning of the 2nd session. We play double jeapordy so we have 2 matches going on at the same time. . Several times while I was in the middle of a match he took it upon himself to match up the other game without confering with me first. He and I did not see eye to eye a lot of times .

Due to .....in my opinion ....being the best player on the team I always matched up with our opponents best......hoping for a win but settling for a close loss and hoping the rest of the team could offset my occasional loss.

Your assumption that I believed my player had no chance of winning is incorrect. I matched up the kid quite often to win some lopsided matches so the team could win that night. Due to matching him up like I did he had the most wins that session out of the 3 - 5's on the team. That led to an ego problem with him and falsely thinking he was the best 5 on the team. Several times hw would comment on having the best record. I would just smile and think ignorance is bliss.

After deciding to take the night off and match him up with a player I normally play hw lost bad. The other team only had 3 players so I and 2 other players went home. I get a text saying a 4 th player showed and upon finding out who it was I tell him to throw our 4. The kid takes it upon himself to jump on the 2nd worst 3 in league and as a result goes up to a 6. As much as you have played league you should realize ...one match will not make you go up. In his case it was the culmination of several easy matches. He really has an ego after going up.

The following week I play him vs a 5. The kid loses 38-40. He says ..if I was still a 5 I would have won. I say no shit.

The following week we have playoffs. The kid is still a 6. He plays another 6 and loses 18-2 . The team cannot offset this lopsided loss and we are eliminated.

The kid starts his own team the next week and also goes back down to a 5. Big deal...he already cost our team a chance at the cities.

He has been captain of his own team for 2 1/2 sessions now. He is still a 5. If I had been holding him back why has hw not gone up since he does his own matchups now ?

If he really was s/l 6 material why was he the easiest win I had in this tournament with nothing but 5's in our bracket.

I mentioned in my op this was our first handicapped match ever.

It was not our first matchup however.

I mentioned in the league thread about us matching up 2 weeks ago in masters.

Instead of flipping for who throws he said he wanted to play me. I said ok. He wins the lag and I choose 8 ball..he wins the first racks and proceeds to grin. He also wins the next 2...still grinning. As I bend down to retrieve the balls I groan and he asks what's the matter. I say o am tired and my feet hurt from an all day scotch doubles cities on 2 teams the day before

He says ...you already have your excuse for losing to me huh ? Wrong thing to say. I win 7 out of the next 8 racks.

Does it sound like I was really holding the kid back ? Or did I know how he was capable of playing regardless of frankincali opinion a lowly 5 is not capable of judging a players level of play.

i like reading your posts too, lorider...just didn't understand this one. That's why I wanted you to clarify. We just have different approaches to captaining, which is fine.

 

[Jeff Rosen]

I don't understand any of this. You are playing a handicapped tournament where you win by points in 9-ball? That's so stupid it's god damned unbelievable. Winning by making a ball on the break?! I honestly don't understand why anyone could possibly take this seriously.

You appear to take pool seriously, judging by the tone of your post, why on earth would you want to be involved in this stupid racket in the first place? Play some proper pool! If you can't find a tournament, then match up with someone your own level, but play a proper game!

We all get bad beats every now and then. But when you are playing someone who's apparently blasting balls at random and somehow ends up winning, then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions! Is it possible that you did something wrong? Is the person hustling you, or does he know some shots you don't? Why is he getting the chance to do this crap, when he apparently doesn't even know how to play the game? Is it possible that YOU are equally bad or worse than this person, but can't admit that to yourself? I'm only asking.

I suggest you find a real tournament. Maybe one for seniors, over 50 year olds etc.. could be a good idea, to see if you do better when you're all on equal footing? Could be small, could be cheap, but unhandicapped. If you win, it's your win, if you lose you own that as well. If you're playing a great player, try to get at least a couple of games, even just one if the person you're playing is a pro. If you're playing any person, try to run a rack. If you run a rack, you run it. Nobody can take that away from you. Pocketing a single ball on the break, wtf is that?! It's nothing to be proud of or bragging about. It's like putting on a pair of pants. Conversely, losing that way is nothing to be angry about either.

Good luck with your pool playing.

Playing a tournament where you win by points is stupid?? I guess with this reasoning you think 14.1 is stupid too. And your handle is straight pool 99??

 

[Straightpool_99]

Playing a tournament where you win by points is stupid?? I guess with this reasoning you think 14.1 is stupid too. And your handle is straight pool 99??

I said "9-ball" with points is stupid. And I stand by that. It is stupid. The game is not structured for points.

Rotation, 14.1 , 3 cushion, snooker, those are points games. I love them all. They are designed with points in mind and they make sense when played this way.

 

[lorider]

I don't understand any of this. You are playing a handicapped tournament where you win by points in 9-ball? That's so stupid it's god damned unbelievable. Winning by making a ball on the break?! I honestly don't understand why anyone could possibly take this seriously.

You appear to take pool seriously, judging by the tone of your post, why on earth would you want to be involved in this stupid racket in the first place? Play some proper pool! If you can't find a tournament, then match up with someone your own level, but play a proper game!

We all get bad beats every now and then. But when you are playing someone who's apparently blasting balls at random and somehow ends up winning, then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions! Is it possible that you did something wrong? Is the person hustling you, or does he know some shots you don't? Why is he getting the chance to do this crap, when he apparently doesn't even know how to play the game? Is it possible that YOU are equally bad or worse than this person, but can't admit that to yourself? I'm only asking.

I suggest you find a real tournament. Maybe one for seniors, over 50 year olds etc.. could be a good idea, to see if you do better when you're all on equal footing? Could be small, could be cheap, but unhandicapped. If you win, it's your win, if you lose you own that as well. If you're playing a great player, try to get at least a couple of games, even just one if the person you're playing is a pro. If you're playing any person, try to run a rack. If you run a rack, you run it. Nobody can take that away from you. Pocketing a single ball on the break, wtf is that?! It's nothing to be proud of or bragging about. It's like putting on a pair of pants. Conversely, losing that way is nothing to be angry about either.

Good luck with your pool playing.

This particular handicap tournament.i.am.only playing other 5's....the same.level as me so.ww are playing even..

As for winning by making one ball on the break ? Think of it this way. You are playing straight pool race to 150. You are at 149 and breaking. You make a ball and win. Same thing in my book..

Non handicapped tournaments ? All we have around here is race to 2 8 ball bar tournaments. I have been banned from them for winning too many .

Senior tournament? Sounds like fun . I will check and see of we ever have any around here.

I have stepped.up and donated in open tournaments a couple of times ...but again I get wore out over a long weekend.

I love playing masters league. Even up race to 7 ..real pool with push outs... jump cues allowed...no.coaching . Sadly its only once month here. If it was every week I would possibly drop all.but one handicap division. You have to play in one division to pls masters.

 

[Straightpool_99]

This particular handicap tournament.i.am.only playing other 5's....the same.level as me so.ww are playing even..

As for winning by making one ball on the break ? Think of it this way. You are playing straight pool race to 150. You are at 149 and breaking. You make a ball and win. Same thing in my book..

Non handicapped tournaments ? All we have around here is race to 2 8 ball bar tournaments. I have been banned from them for winning too many .

Senior tournament? Sounds like fun . I will check and see of we ever have any around here.

I have stepped.up and donated in open tournaments a couple of times ...but again I get wore out over a long weekend.

I love playing masters league. Even up race to 7 ..real pool with push outs... jump cues allowed...no.coaching . Sadly its only once month here. If it was every week I would possibly drop all.but one handicap division. You have to play in one division to pls masters.

Ok. I guess you don't have many choices for open tournaments. That's too bad. As you could tell from my post I'm not a fan of bastardized games, especially when those games are made with a purpose in mind that I don't agree with (in this case increasing luck and tying the hands of good players). If you like playing 9 ball this way, then that's your perogative.

However, I must point out, that your frustration, while possibly caused by bad play, may also be a result of the game structure and the inherent pitfalls of handicapped play. While 9 ball is far from a perfect game, at least it has the satisfaction of winning by running racks and making great shots while planning your out, while the bastardized version seems to me like it would be a lot less satisfying. You could win by just making the easy shots and play two way shots all the time. You don't have to run out as much. It seems to me that will stunt your growth as a player and encourage you to stagnate in your development.

When you add to this that many players sandbag, you'll end up with a lot of frustrating losses that might make you bored with the game.

I realize that my last post had a negative tone to it, it was intentional because I wanted to "wake you up" a bit. I apologize if it came off as overly harsh.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I think experience may also play a role in this. About a year ago I played an excellent snooker player who would have been in his late 50's or early 60's. The tournament started at 11 and we played at around 6pm I think, finishing just after 7pm. He played probably his best match of the tournament so far against me. He has tons of experience, and plays often and showed no signs of fatigue. I was the one who was tired actually, and I'm only 33.

 

[lorider]

Ok. I guess you don't have many choices for open tournaments. That's too bad. As you could tell from my post I'm not a fan of bastardized games, especially when those games are made with a purpose in mind that I don't agree with (in this case increasing luck and tying the hands of good players). If you like playing 9 ball this way, then that's your perogative.

However, I must point out, that your frustration, while possibly caused by bad play, may also be a result of the game structure and the inherent pitfalls of handicapped play. While 9 ball is far from a perfect game, at least it has the satisfaction of winning by running racks and making great shots while planning your out, while the bastardized version seems to me like it would be a lot less satisfying. You could win by just making the easy shots and play two way shots all the time. You don't have to run out as much. It seems to me that will stunt your growth as a player and encourage you to stagnate in your development.

When you add to this that many players sandbag, you'll end up with a lot of frustrating losses that might make you bored with the game.

I realize that my last post had a negative tone to it, it was intentional because I wanted to "wake you up" a bit. I apologize if it came off as overly harsh.

Believe it or not I some what agree with you about apa.9 ball. I even once made a thread about how much I disliked slop shots I encounter from my opponents.

I used to get quite frustrated when players would hit the object ball at warp speed hoping some thing would fall.some where. It really got to me so much it would affect my level of play and I would lose because of it.

I have gotten to the point now where I just chuckle when they resort to that and just lee.playing my game but admittedly some times ot still gets to me.

For the most part I just accept it is what it is and keep telling myself slop counts on 9 ball at all levels....just dont see it as much as you.so in apa lol.

No problem coming across harsh ...constructive criticism is always welcome. Ar least you could have given me am.attaboy from coming back from a 23 point deficit to my opponents 3 points made.to win the match..:grin-square:

I turned the score sheet in and she the league operator went over it I heard the first ever cuss word come from his mouth.

He said....damn !! You were down 33-15 and scored 23-3 to win ! Geez what a come back ! I said ...good thing I did not know what.the score was cause I probably woulda choked. He started laughing.