i think i just played my last tournament

[lorider]

I played in an apa.2,000.00.added 9 ball tournament that began last night. 35.00 entry fee and no green fees. Also had a Calcutta.

It was broken into handicap brackets so I only played other 5's.

My first match was last night against a former co captain of mine. There is a lil animosity between is since he left my team and took some of my players and I only found out 4 days before the new session started. The reason they left was because they did not like how I match people up. Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up. I did not mind them leaving but was upset I had no notice and had to find 4 players with only 4 days notice ....i was informed by the lo ..not the players.

So any way this is the first time we ever played a handicap match..i won 7-4 in masters.
I won 38-27 and he did not even want to shake my hand.

My next match was this morning against the favored to win....according to the Calcutta bidding anyway. I have never played this person 9 ball and have only played them a few times in 8 ball and I lost every time hill-hill. I started out bad ...like I am prone to do.
After the match had gone on a while I was starting to break and the scorekeeper said we both only needed one ball. I made one on the break and won. Like I said ...I started out bad ....just did not realize how bad until I went over the scoresheet. I was down 34-15 at one point and won 38-37 which means I scored 23 points to their 3 towards the end of the match....unfrigging believable .

My next match was 3 hours later against another guy I have never played 9 ball against. Long story short. This guy made several warp speed shots ...hoping something fell somewhere. All too often something fell and all too often he had a decent shot next or back to warp speed again and all too often I was hooked when he missed. I lost 38-32 putting me in the losers bracket.

Next match was 3 hours later against the same layer I won against this morning. I actually started out better this game and it stayed close till the last few racks where I dogged a few. I just ran out of steam and lost 38-34. I wound up in 5 th place...one spot out of the money.

I paid my tab and chatted with a few people for a few minutes and then checked to.see who was left in all the brackets. No one over 50 was left. That confirmed my suspicion that old people may play just as good...or better than youngsters...we just don't have the stamina to last hour after hour against 30-40 year olds ....at least I dont anyway. I am.63 by the way.

 

[Dead Money]

Father Time is undefeated

Sounds like you had a decent tourney until the end any way and you got to beat an old "friend" too.

 

[RichSchultz]

I don't understand this statement: "Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up."

That sounds like sandbagging to me. Plus, that doesn't sound fun at all. On the team I captain, I want folks to do as well as they can.

Can you clarify?

 

[Ched]

Never give up. Never give in. Play against yourself. Tournament or not .. doesn't matter ... always try to be better.

 

[Black-Balled]

I don't understand this statement: "Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up."

That sounds like sandbagging to me. Plus, that doesn't sound fun at all. On the team I captain, I want folks to do as well as they can.

Can you clarify?

Same principle as losing a game every now and then at the bar, but instead of getting punched in the face, the player gets raised a skill level.

 

[Black-Balled]

Ha know, lo?

Pretty much every time over the past few years I have played a tourney bigger than a weeknight one, I have had thoughts of
'wtf am I doing here, standing around in a damn pool room all day?'

Then I forget those thoughts in 4-10 months and do it again.

Oh- you need a new shirt:
I got beat by THE RAM SHOT.

I played in an apa.2,000.00.added 9 ball tournament that began last night. 35.00 entry fee and no green fees. Also had a Calcutta.

It was broken into handicap brackets so I only played other 5's.

My first match was last night against a former co captain of mine. There is a lil animosity between is since he left my team and took some of my players and I only found out 4 days before the new session started. The reason they left was because they did not like how I match people up. Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up. I did not mind them leaving but was upset I had no notice and had to find 4 players with only 4 days notice ....i was informed by the lo ..not the players.

So any way this is the first time we ever played a handicap match..i won 7-4 in masters.
I won 38-27 and he did not even want to shake my hand.

My next match was this morning against the favored to win....according to the Calcutta bidding anyway. I have never played this person 9 ball and have only played them a few times in 8 ball and I lost every time hill-hill. I started out bad ...like I am prone to do.
After the match had gone on a while I was starting to break and the scorekeeper said we both only needed one ball. I made one on the break and won. Like I said ...I started out bad ....just did not realize how bad until I went over the scoresheet. I was down 34-15 at one point and won 38-37 which means I scored 23 points to their 3 towards the end of the match....unfrigging believable .

My next match was 3 hours later against another guy I have never played 9 ball against. Long story short. This guy made several warp speed shots ...hoping something fell somewhere. All too often something fell and all too often he had a decent shot next or back to warp speed again and all too often I was hooked when he missed. I lost 38-32 putting me in the losers bracket.

Next match was 3 hours later against the same layer I won against this morning. I actually started out better this game and it stayed close till the last few racks where I dogged a few. I just ran out of steam and lost 38-34. I wound up in 5 th place...one spot out of the money.

I paid my tab and chatted with a few people for a few minutes and then checked to.see who was left in all the brackets. No one over 50 was left. That confirmed my suspicion that old people may play just as good...or better than youngsters...we just don't have the stamina to last hour after hour against 30-40 year olds ....at least I dont anyway. I am.63 by the way.

 

[raistlinsdragon]

I don't understand this statement: "Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up."

That sounds like sandbagging to me. Plus, that doesn't sound fun at all. On the team I captain, I want folks to do as well as they can.

Can you clarify?

Under the APA rules each player must try and win. Rules don't say the captain must make the best pairing to win. Still a nit league and rules, but what he does is legal.

 

[justadub]

I get where you're coming from, lorider, tho I'm not sure its just age...waiting that long to play is just a drag. So difficult to keep it together. Perhaps age is related (I'm 53) to a degree, but that crap is just tough on anyone.

I don't play in tourneys much lately for similar reasons. If I do poorly, then that aggravates me. If I'm even moderately successful, it becomes an all day (and into the night) thing, which also aggravates me. Took the fun out of it for me the last time I played

 

[Coop1701]

I keep saying I am not playing anymore tournaments. It's not that I don't enjoy the competition. Because I really do like that. But some of the tournaments here say we are starting at 1. Turns out to be 2:30. Then a hour for the Calcutta. Then if you make it to the finals. You are finishing up at 4:30am. I don't have the attention span for it. Plus I hate hanging out that late. 10pm or 11. That's one thing. But really 4am is crazy. The last doubles tourney I played. My partner and I lost at like 1:30 in the morning. I was thinking it would have been worth it if we had won. But 1:30 and lose kind of stinks.

 

[Ekojasiloop]

I played in an apa.2,000.00.added 9 ball tournament that began last night. 35.00 entry fee and no green fees. Also had a Calcutta.

It was broken into handicap brackets so I only played other 5's.

My first match was last night against a former co captain of mine. There is a lil animosity between is since he left my team and took some of my players and I only found out 4 days before the new session started. The reason they left was because they did not like how I match people up. Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up. I did not mind them leaving but was upset I had no notice and had to find 4 players with only 4 days notice ....i was informed by the lo ..not the players.

So any way this is the first time we ever played a handicap match..i won 7-4 in masters.
I won 38-27 and he did not even want to shake my hand.

My next match was this morning against the favored to win....according to the Calcutta bidding anyway. I have never played this person 9 ball and have only played them a few times in 8 ball and I lost every time hill-hill. I started out bad ...like I am prone to do.
After the match had gone on a while I was starting to break and the scorekeeper said we both only needed one ball. I made one on the break and won. Like I said ...I started out bad ....just did not realize how bad until I went over the scoresheet. I was down 34-15 at one point and won 38-37 which means I scored 23 points to their 3 towards the end of the match....unfrigging believable .

My next match was 3 hours later against another guy I have never played 9 ball against. Long story short. This guy made several warp speed shots ...hoping something fell somewhere. All too often something fell and all too often he had a decent shot next or back to warp speed again and all too often I was hooked when he missed. I lost 38-32 putting me in the losers bracket.

Next match was 3 hours later against the same layer I won against this morning. I actually started out better this game and it stayed close till the last few racks where I dogged a few. I just ran out of steam and lost 38-34. I wound up in 5 th place...one spot out of the money.

I paid my tab and chatted with a few people for a few minutes and then checked to.see who was left in all the brackets. No one over 50 was left. That confirmed my suspicion that old people may play just as good...or better than youngsters...we just don't have the stamina to last hour after hour against 30-40 year olds ....at least I dont anyway. I am.63 by the way.

Play somebody a race to seven for 35 instead. That's one if the things we do have going for,us if you've got 40 in your pocket you can even play a champion and probably dictate all the terms.

 

[lorider]

I don't understand this statement: "Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up."

That sounds like sandbagging to me. Plus, that doesn't sound fun at all. On the team I captain, I want folks to do as well as they can.

Can you clarify?

Sure I will try to clarify this for you.

Sandbagging is losing your match on purpose or running up innings ny missing shots occasionally even in your wins. Matching your player against an opponent they likely have no chance to beat is not sandbagging.i realize playing some one you have no chance of beating may not be fun...but on the other hand how many times has it been said....to.be a better player you have to.play better players ?

I try to match my played up to where we all win enough to keep the team on contention for tri cups and league championships but lose enough where no one goes up...hope that makes sense.

I keep stats on all my players such as win/loss....who their opponents were.....how many innings their match went.

Lets use the ex captain for example. My records indicated he was playing pretty well and had won quite a few matches and I thought he might go up if he kept this up so for 2 weeks in a row I played him against players I usually play and he lost both.

The 3 rd week we played a team that only had 4 players there so I decided not to play and threw my co captain against their 6 and again he lost.

I asked the other captain if any one else was showing up and he said no so I decided to leave early as I had been running a jack hammer all day at work and this 63 year old body was wore out.

Well as soon as I got home I get a text a 5 th player showed. I ask who? It was a 3 that can't run 2 ball starting with big. I tell my co captain to throw our 4 as a replay. He takes it upon him self to play this 3. He beats the crap out of that 3 .

Need less to say I was pretty upset the next week when.i show up my co captain comes running up with scoresheet in hand shouting I was raised to a 6...i was raised to a 6 . I tried to politely...as.best as I could being pissed off....beating the crap out of a lowly 3 may raise you to a 6 but it don't mean you play like a 6.

I play him against a darn good 5 that night and he loses. Next week at playoffs he is still a 6. We are playing both 8 and 9 playoffs . We are playing one team.that is just playing 8 ball amd the other is just playing 9. As a result we are splitting team again 2 teams which makes it hard in matching up. I was forced to play my co.captain against a darn good 6 amd my player lost 18-2 knocking us out of going to tri cups . The following week mu hit goes back to q 5 where he belongs ...until he improves enough beating other players his level to be raised back up.

 

[ceebee]

Been there.... I don't play the long tournaments any more. I still like the 3-4 hour tournaments & get in them occasionally. I'll venture over to the One-Pocket game, but most generally I play GOLF on a 10 Snooker Table with some tough customers. It's 5-6 hour ordeal on Friday & Saturday nights.

We don't have many RUNOUTS, from the Break, but you give up the 2 hole, the game may be over.

I call it, You Miss, You Lose Club...

I'm 74

 

[lorider]

I don't understand this statement: "Since I dont believe in sandbagging I would match them.up to lose when I thought they might be in danger of going up."

That sounds like sandbagging to me. Plus, that doesn't sound fun at all. On the team I captain, I want folks to do as well as they can.

Can you clarify?

Sorry I got off track in my long winded post.. Putting your player against an opponent where your player cant win no matter how hard he tries is not sandbagging..

 

[RichSchultz]

Sorry I got off track in my long winded post.. Putting your player against an opponent where your player cant win no matter how hard he tries is not sandbagging..

ok, but I'd leave your team too. Why would I spend my time and money on something where, as my captain believes, I have no chance of winning. Waste of my time.

 

[lorider]

ok, but I'd leave your team too. Why would I spend my time and money on something where, as my captain believes, I have no chance of winning. Waste of my time.

I respect your viewpoint..in your reply you.keep.referring to how "you " feel..

A captain basically determines what type of team he has.

He can.have a team.of friends just hanging out and having fun.

He can have a serious team where he tells his players to sandbag.

He can have a team.like I try to.have. A team where individuals put their egos aside ....play their best every week and hopefully at the end of the year be in contention for a.shot at Vegas.

Part of the captains job is to know all of his players strengths and weaknesses when matching up. Every player has to win enough matches to keep the team.in contention and yet not win too many. Every one on the team ....myself included is matched up this way.

I am going to use myself and my ex co captain as an example.

He is a good 5....he probably is a better straight shooter than I am. Probably due to being younger and better eyesight. He lacks cue ball control and the thought of playing sages never enters his mind. At his current playing ability he is not capable of being competitive as a 6.

I am also a 5 . I have better cue ball control and play safes when warranted. I have been a 6 four times in 9 ball and once in 8 ball. I have been raised after beating a 9 ...beating an 8 and beating another 5 by 19-1 .. I have never been raised to a 6 by beating the crap out of a 3 like he did.

Even though I am a better player than he is I dont think I am at the level where I could be competitive as a 6 except on my best days which dont happen often enough.

I liked the kid and that is why I made him my co captain. He just got to where he thought he was better than he really was. Even got to bragging....nicely....that he had a better win record than I did which was true bit it was due to I always played the best players on the other team... To keep my handicap down.

Like I said ...he thought he was better than me and just could not handle losing to me the first time we ever played each other this weekend and would not even shake my hand. In the long run I guess its best he formed his own team ...i dont want anyone like that on my team.

Oh yea.....he went 2 and out. His 2nd loss was to a 5 that has never beat me and the kid thinks he oughta be a 6 ?

 

[xianmacx]

These are all the reasons I would never join another league. It's not about playing pool, it's about off table strategy to get to go to vegas. A lot of headaches and drama for a "chance" to go to vegas.

 

[justadub]

ok, but I'd leave your team too. Why would I spend my time and money on something where, as my captain believes, I have no chance of winning. Waste of my time.

Another way to look at it is that "if" your player plays well enough to win against a better opponent, then your player ought to be raised anyway.

I use this strategy somewhat myself, tho not nearly as in-depth as lorider does. And I'm thinking that the reality is a lot less harsh than the way its presented here with the written word. Perhaps I'm wrong in assuming, but I'm doubting that lorider is putting his people in this circumstance up against players WAY over their ability. (i.e. his 5 up against 8's or 9's). He simply knows that his player isnt likely to beat the opponent he has selected. At least thats how I do it, the few times I do it, usually in the weeks leading up to playoffs.

If you want to play in a league where your captain sets you up to squash lesser opponents regularly, so that you can "have fun", you're right....you'd need to be on a different team. Unfortunately, you usually can't set up squashes for everyone on your team, so that might prove problematic

***edit*** I fully intend for everyone on my team to "have fun", else why bother to do it. I rarely ever "throw off", putting up one of my weaker players against the opponents best simply for the strategy. Its no fun for either player. Still, if you are playing a team game that has a standings component and an incentive for winning, you do have to make some concessions in the "managing" of said team. Or else everyone has to not give a damn, which is cool too, if everyone is on board.

 

[Kevin3824]

I can see where it might make players quit if they think they cannot win. However, that would make some players practice a lot more so they could win. Those players might be able to put aside their ego and simply improve on their own time outside of league and really learn to dominate the table no matter what you throw at them. You could build a champion like that. The problem with that concept would be that once they get that good they will see little need to play on a team that would limit their ability to progress. because the other players do not practice as much as they do. Or for that matter would you want to play if you knew that you were far better at the game then the captain of your team who determines who you get to play against if you were putting in the practice time to become a champion?

Just a couple thoughts. There are a few really good players out there some are pro some are not but all of them put in serious table time to get to their level.

 

[frankncali]

What a guy

Good lord..

reading this thread reminds me so much of my time in the APA.

First off a SL 5 in 9ball can not determine anything when it comes to SLs of other players. Not enough to matter anyways.

To think that you can choose who to match someone up against expecting them to lose is nonsense. More than likely and I would bet in these circumstances you put off a bad vibe and did not help the players YOU WANTED TO LOSE.

You dont match someone up thinking they could lose, you WANTED them to lose so as you determined they could stay lower until they GOT BETTER in your highly trained SL5 in APA 9ball eyes.

Get over yourself and I cant believe you have anyone left that would play.

And yes I played APA and was in regionals every year and made the finals 80% of the years and it was because I matched people up and let them know I thought they COULD WIN. I and WE (its a team you know) would help each other.

A captain is not an owner and you act like you are above everyone on your team and own them.

I rarely if ever say anything like the above but it gets me when a person like yourself thinks they own their team and that they can tell how people play.

I guarantee you say things like so and so is a high five vs a middle five and she is a low 4. Its hard to understand but you simply do not have the knowledge to tell that.

 

[Ched]

Put me in with the "I want to enjoy it" group of folks. APA league is not a professional group where the players get paid for what they do. Their payment is the enjoyment of playing.

I only played one season back in 2010 - and it was ok, other than I wish it was done earlier in the day. The folks were ok. I did rejoin the APA this month - and may play a summer league starting in May. I don't mind playing a better player; especially if they're good folk I can talk to. It can be educational. But I do want to win sometimes too.

The approach of "Team First" reminds me of those parents that take the joy out of sports for their kids cause they want to WIN. I'm sure you're a nice enough guy and all - but you might have a better relationship with the folks you play with if you were a bit more open to their desires too.

I'm 60 - wracked with arthritis, COPD, and a few other things. I'm never going to be a pro .. so the enjoyment is the only reason I play. With a desire to improve always.

Just IMHO,
Ched