I'd like to discuss cue acceleration

nataddrho

nataddrho

www.digicue.net
Silver Member
This subject has been talked about since the beginning of billiards, probably for over 500 years. However, properly accelerating your cue into the cue ball still remains elusive to most people (more than 50%) who play. I tried to help players become aware of this with the DigiCue (follow-through parameter) and I have gotten some good feedback, and also some mixed results.

I have experiment/observed/read that shoulder recruitment in the stroke is responsible for large variations in tip accuracy, and thus leads to many of the other dynamic problems (symptoms) that we are familiar with: quick stroke, standing up quickly, not taking your time, careless errors... based on the lack-of-confidence caused by a "large rifle spread" in tip position/accuracy on the cue ball. Most other sports require an explosive acceleration to generate power. A punch is a natural movement, so is lifting something, or jumping, or reacting to a predator quickly. Maybe this is why a slowly accelerating pool stroke is difficult to master... it is the opposite of our physiology.

I have also found that a big reason for shoulder recruitment is because of the perceived need to quickly generate power in the stroke. It is hard to convince or train a player that recruits their shoulder that power can be obtained by backstroke length alone, and that the forward stroke acceleration can remain constant and comfortable. It is hard to make this concept stick, but may be the gap needed to move someone plateaued at a B-level or lower, up to a higher level... the idea of generating power by using distance, instead of time.

I am thinking that there are some who grasp this concept early or easily, some who work very hard to figure it out (me) and some who never do. The former often can not understand why the latter struggle so much because they also don't realize their own realization.

What is your experience with my comments above? Was this one of your milestones? Was this ever an issue for you?

Nate
 
nataddrho said:
This subject has been talked about since the beginning of billiards, probably for over 500 years. However, properly accelerating your cue into the cue ball still remains elusive to most people (more than 50%) who play. I tried to help players become aware of this with the DigiCue (follow-through parameter) and I have gotten some good feedback, and also some mixed results.

I have experiment/observed/read that shoulder recruitment in the stroke is responsible for large variations in tip accuracy, and thus leads to many of the other dynamic problems (symptoms) that we are familiar with: quick stroke, standing up quickly, not taking your time, careless errors... based on the lack-of-confidence caused by a "large rifle spread" in tip position/accuracy on the cue ball. Most other sports require an explosive acceleration to generate power. A punch is a natural movement, so is lifting something, or jumping, or reacting to a predator quickly. Maybe this is why a slowly accelerating pool stroke is difficult to master... it is the opposite of our physiology.

I have also found that a big reason for shoulder recruitment is because of the perceived need to quickly generate power in the stroke. It is hard to convince or train a player that recruits their shoulder that power can be obtained by backstroke length alone, and that the forward stroke acceleration can remain constant and comfortable. It is hard to make this concept stick, but may be the gap needed to move someone plateaued at a B-level or lower, up to a higher level... the idea of generating power by using distance, instead of time.

I am thinking that there are some who grasp this concept early or easily, some who work very hard to figure it out (me) and some who never do. The former often can not understand why the latter struggle so much because they also don't realize their own realization.

What is your experience with my comments above? Was this one of your milestones? Was this ever an issue for you?

Nate
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I have spent the last 18 months trying to make a smooth accelerating stroke automatic for me. As you said it is very difficult. I am able to do it but on power draws I am missing. Your comment above give me something to be aware of and I am going to try this out tonight when I get home. Thanks
 
Anybody with thoughts on how to improve break speed along these lines? I am experimenting and have seen a decrease in speed if I try to add too much into the stroke. How do pros with big breaks add body movements in and get more speed than their usual power stroke for say a draw or force follow? Any swing thoughts for maximum break speed?
 
JPB2 said:
Anybody with thoughts on how to improve break speed along these lines? I am experimenting and have seen a decrease in speed if I try to add too much into the stroke. How do pros with big breaks add body movements in and get more speed than their usual power stroke for say a draw or force follow? Any swing thoughts for maximum break speed?
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Good timing on the stoke. Arm, body motion has to be timed to contact the cue ball at the right time. I know a few players that over-exaggerate the follow through and arm power they try to add, but their timing of the motions is too early or too late in the stroke so it just ends up adding inaccuracy to the hit. They lunge at the hit but only after cueball contact, so the extra motion is useless. Or they slow down before contact or move the tip to add too much spin or hit off center on the rack due to the aiming issue.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Good timing on the stoke. Arm, body motion has to be timed to contact the cue ball at the right time. I know a few players that over-exaggerate the follow through and arm power they try to add, but their timing of the motions is too early or too late in the stroke so it just ends up adding inaccuracy to the hit. They lunge at the hit but only after cueball contact, so the extra motion is useless. Or they slow down before contact or move the tip to add too much spin or hit off center on the rack due to the aiming issue.
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So how do you time it up? By this I mean with swing thoughts or techniques. Like visualizing hitting a ghost cue ball behind the real one or feeling the wrist release or grip close at a certain point in the stroke etc... how do people get that 25 mph ball speed? You see those lists - long bridge loose grip etc... but any ideas on specific timing for max speed are appreciated
 
JPB2 said:
So how do you time it up? By this I mean with swing thoughts or techniques. Like visualizing hitting a ghost cue ball behind the real one or feeling the wrist release or grip close at a certain point in the stroke etc... how do people get that 25 mph ball speed? You see those lists - long bridge loose grip etc... but any ideas on specific timing for max speed are appreciated
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I would also like to know. I have an average 17.5 mph break speed.
 
Boxers and golfers generate power and speed from the hips up.
Most weak breakers rely on arm speed only.
Try to use the hips rotating to generate more speed and power.
Your legs are stronger than your arms.
I'm 76 years old 5'8 tall and 180 pounds and can break at 20 to 22 MPH using the hips up method.
 
Practice x practice (practice + practice) = PIITH

Once you find it, you will just know. Then you'll be 'putting it in the hole'.
 
JPB2 said:
Anybody with thoughts on how to improve break speed along these lines? I am experimenting and have seen a decrease in speed if I try to add too much into the stroke. How do pros with big breaks add body movements in and get more speed than their usual power stroke for say a draw or force follow? Any swing thoughts for maximum break speed?
Click to expand...

Have you tried gripping loosey-goosey & snapping that wrist like you're throwing a long dart through an engine block?
 
measureman said:
Boxers and golfers generate power and speed from the hips up.
Most weak breakers rely on arm speed only.
Try to use the hips rotating to generate more speed and power.
Your legs are stronger than your arms.
I'm 76 years old 5'8 tall and 180 pounds and can break at 20 to 22 MPH using the hips up method.
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So rotation rather than straight line? In the gif swing the hips rotate on the backswing then unwind. In the break stroke is there just rotation coming through?
 
JessEm said:
Practice x practice (practice + practice) = PIITH

Once you find it, you will just know. Then you'll be 'putting it in the hole'.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, this is the thought process I am trying to unravel. For many, many people, passive practice is inefficient.

I know a lot of people on here became good players through inefficient passive learning, and may get mad at the suggestion that active focused learning is better because people don't want to feel that they wasted most of their time.

Just saying.
 
nataddrho said:
With all due respect, this is the thought process I am trying to unravel. For many, many people, passive practice is inefficient.

I know a lot of people on here became good players through inefficient passive learning, and may get mad at the suggestion that active focused learning is better because people don't want to feel that they wasted most of their time.

Just saying.
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Sorry, but the mechanics involved and their exact proportions when you're 'out of your mind' defy explanation.
 
Slowly accelerating through the shot is the only way I have found to keep my head still and maintain accuracy.
When I need to power the ball I tend to drop the elbow for more extension.
It doesn't seem to hurt my accuracy but I'm nowhere near pro speed regardless.
My misses are lazy alignment or going zero to full speed, causing movement that pulls some part of me off the line.
I get mentally tired of consciously focusing on maybe five different things on every shot.
I finally have a stance, grip, and PSR that work, so I am hoping some aspects become automatic and my best game will become less exhausting.
How do you keep your brain from getting lazy and skipping steps?
 
JPB2 said:
...how do people get that 25 mph ball speed?
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Shane gets it by standing up during the shot stroke so he can straighten his arm and swing that longer "lever" using his shoulder muscle to get more speed than swinging just half of it (the forearm) with his biceps muscle.

pj
chgo
 
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nataddrho said:
With all due respect, this is the thought process I am trying to unravel. For many, many people, passive practice is inefficient.

I know a lot of people on here became good players through inefficient passive learning, and may get mad at the suggestion that active focused learning is better because people don't want to feel that they wasted most of their time.

Just saying.
Click to expand...

One drill I like is to run a rack hitting the balls as softly as possible (after the break). Bert Kinister also has a good drill on learning how softly you can hit a ball and still stop or draw it.

Neither of these drills address your mechanics question, but they have helped me as a crap player identify the lower end of the power curve. If I'm playing worse than usual, one solution I've found is to revert to these soft drills. If I cant make a soft shot, I certainly can't make a high speed shot.
 
kling&allen said:
One drill I like is to run a rack hitting the balls as softly as possible (after the break). Bert Kinister also has a good drill on learning how softly you can hit a ball and still stop or draw it.

Neither of these drills address your mechanics question, but they have helped me as a crap player identify the lower end of the power curve. If I'm playing worse than usual, one solution I've found is to revert to these soft drills. If I cant make a soft shot, I certainly can't make a high speed shot.
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Bingo! This is my aiming/warm-up drill that works best for me.

The operative phrase is "as softly as possible." The idea is to slow-roll, enough that it may not drop if it rubs. A win is when it rolls right to the edge and appears to almost stop, before it drops.

One thing I do when I'm playing worse than usual is remind myself that "every shot is born a soft shot." It has a way of grounding me (even though I actually employ a combination of soft AND blazing shots when I'm playing well.)
 
nataddrho said:
With all due respect, this is the thought process I am trying to unravel. For many, many people, passive practice is inefficient.

I know a lot of people on here became good players through inefficient passive learning, and may get mad at the suggestion that active focused learning is better because people don't want to feel that they wasted most of their time.

Just saying.
Click to expand...
Your on the right path, if your understanding how you do it. And then you can correct the inaccuracies. That may or may not be there. Much of this, is just down to timing. But it most cases, if you feel your, not getting through the ball. Than its a bit of both. Cue action and timing, should be in sync. Yeah practice is a big part, to develop it. When you do think, you figured it out. Endless hours are required. But I like your approach, to this.

Breaking is very individual, different Breaks for different tables.
so finding out what works for you. Its not easy.
Depending on your swing,thats your timing. What I noticed. Bustamante was one of the best, at acceleration through the cue ball. That big pause he had. Aloud him to get his momentum going through. Also linning everything up, In the process. Johnny archer did the same thing. His looked more natural.
 
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